Episode Transcript
The below text transcription was is intended for audience reference and search purposes. Because it is generated automatically by computer, please forgive mis-translations, spelling and the lack of really any structured grammar.
In a story about a mother’s lies and much
other more serious crimes
audrey murray hilly would attempt to
pull off the ultimate con
but her bold attempt to outsmart
everyone would prove to be this black
widow’s ultimate demise
[Music]
This is episode #23 the Audrey Marie Hilly story
[Music]
Hi megan hi amy how are you good i miss
you but
very happy for technology i know me too
we say it every time
i miss you too all right so we have some
new patrons
all right let’s hear it all right first
i want to give a big thank you to hannah
shoop
from scottsdale thank you hannah and
hannah i was born in scottsdale oh my
gosh i didn’t know you were born in
scottsdale i’m like an onion megan
i know we’re peeling away your layers
still i’d also like to say
uh hello and thank you to jamie anderson
from utah thank you jamie thank you so
much for your support
and yasmine l from manassas and that’s
virginia right i believe it is yes
thank you yasmine all right we’d also
like to say uh
thank you to aaron t i won’t give her
last name for now
erin is the executive director of a
non-profit helping with mental health
substance abuse in the charlottesville
area
so if you’d like to check that out you
can see her website
on our own seaville.org
that’s on our own c v i
l l e dot org i also want to say thank
you to erin for doing such important
meaningful work
absolutely thanks erin okay let’s get to
erin’s questions
if there was an overhaul in our mental
health system including substance
use challenges and we went from an
abstinent-based
perspective to a harm reduction model
do you think there would be less women
committing crime she’s clearly a mental
health professional
obviously it’s a great question it’s and
it’s an absolute
yes in our field
uh we we argue that we should definitely
move to a harm reduction
model because it would it would
absolutely reduce crime it would reduce
substance
abuse it would reduce disease it would
have a number of positive effects
and that would certainly be one of them
less women committing crime
also as a follow-up to that question do
you believe that substance use
challenges are a major contributor to
women committing crime or helping their
partners commit crime
yes that’s an also overwhelming yes
in fact amy um what are the numbers for
women who have substance abuse problems
in prison incarcerated i believe the
numbers i’ve read a few different
reports because
obviously researchers use different
methodologies but i i would
feel comfortable saying to percent
does that sound right to you that sounds
absolutely right to me um and when i
teach women in crime i cover this topic
as well so yeah i think it’s about
three-quarters of women in prison
are suffer from substance abuse issues
and a history
of abuse i was going to say a lot of
times the substance use is
self-medicating
and trying to deal with these horrible
domestic situations that they find
themselves in
absolutely okay so we hope you answered
your question erin um who else do we
have we have
mariana campbell from pennsylvania hey
mariana thank you so much
marianna’s originally from brazil and i
know
very exciting and she also gave us a
case suggestion we love our case
suggestions and
i want you all to know whether you’re a
patron or not we
always keep a list of all your case
suggestions whether you leave it on a
review
or email it to us thank you we love
hearing these suggestions
and we have madeleine madeleine is
graduating with a master’s in forensic
psychology amy
that’s awesome congrats madeline if you
need any career advice
yeah yes i too got my masters in
forensic psychology
so awesome and madeline has a question
for us and her question is this
how do you become successful stand out
gain respect as a woman in a field
mostly dominated by men megan i think
your history as a probation officer i
think you’re well
situated to answer that question yeah i
think so as well it’s a great it’s a
great question i worked with
i wouldn’t say predominantly male but
certainly a more male
environment and i also worked on a
special team and where i was the only
female and this was kind of a
it was like um i’m trying to think of
the way to say this this was a team that
visited with non-compliant offenders and
we had to make arrests sometimes or
you know these were dangerous situations
how do i feel like i stood out first of
all
i definitely worked hard i mean there’s
there’s no
there’s no doubt you feel like you had
to work harder i don’t feel like i had
to work harder now because i was always
a hard worker and to be honest i
differentiated myself
because of you know how how diligent i
was there’s no doubt about that
when i got into the office i found that
it was
easy for me to find my own strengths and
i
think that because i didn’t try to
compete directly with the males in terms
of
i didn’t need to be the person who was
going to use a batting ram to throw a
door down
i was like no that’s not my strong suit
but you know what i found that i was
really good at like defusing situations
i spoke a little bit of spanish which no
one on my team did
i was a night owl and it turns out some
people were just not great at night
shifts and
and they didn’t want to take them i
didn’t mind getting my hands dirty and
to be honest
because i differentiated myself and
because i had my own strengths
i felt that i was very respected by my
male colleagues it’s a great answer
megan
okay all right well thank you so much
madeline for that question
we also have elise l from portland have
you been to portland
i love portland portland is one of my
favorite cities my thoughts are with
everyone in portland right now i know
there’s a lot of civil unrest but
portland is an amazing place right
um lastly who else do we have today we
have milani from los angeles milani
might be my
favorite name of all our patrons i no
offense to the other patrons
none either but i was thinking the same
thing so milani had a really interesting
question
milani asked why do you think offenders
like centoya brown
and crystal kaiser are not seen as
victims of human trafficking despite the
evidence
i know in both cases there was theft of
property and that was used against him
in court well i think the simple
unfortunate answer is that sex workers
minority women particularly those who
are lower class they are criminalized
so luckily views are changing and our
society does view
sex workers as victims particularly
minors right when we talked about
centolia brown
nobody was talking about the fact that
centorria brown was a sex worker
she was also a minor and in court no one
was recognizing the fact that she is a
victim she was a child
who was being trafficked by her pimp so
i think it’s important
that these cases come to light and i
think there’s a lot of support for
people like centoya and crystal
yeah um in teaching women and crime also
what happened is that
we treated victims of trafficking even
like prostitutes until very recently to
be honest and i want to say
these views and our treatment of these
women only started changing in the last
years
so i think historically we treated women
this way and i think
as amy said it uh well i think the
effect is more pronounced in women who
are
lower class and or minorities yep and
thank you very much for that question i
hope to cover crystal’s case sometime
soon it’s great thank you
to all of our patrons existing and not
appreciate it very much
so today we’re digging into the audrey
marie hilly case
before there was stacy castor there was
audrey marie
hilly though obviously i’ve already
given away that there are
mur there’s a murder and there are other
crimes have you heard of her i have not
okay well then i think you’re gonna find
this one
very interesting this one i picked it
was an older case that i was interested
in
probably one of the ones after betty
broderick and it has so many elements
and layers
the twists and turns there’s probably
even more
after the actual crime of murder is
committed so
get ready let’s do it so audrey marie
hilly known to most as marie
was born in june in north alabama
to parents lucille
and huey frazier who were both local
textile workers
this was right after the great
depression and marie’s parents they knew
that a single income was not enough so
both of her parents worked
while marie was primarily raised by her
aunts and other relatives
by all accounts murray’s parents felt
badly about this so they overcompensated
by spoiling murray and by
basically allowing her to get her way
most of the time
so she was reportedly entitled
and used to getting what she wanted from
an early age
but the frasers had really high hopes
for their daughter and so did marie she
was confident
they moved eventually to anniston
alabama where marie would attend high
school and where she would meet her
future husband
frank hilly keep in mind marie was a
very attractive young woman who had
aspirations she was very involved
academically she was looking at this
time for the secretarial career
remember this is also around the s
s
frank served in the navy but returned to
alabama after
to take a position in a shipping
department where he eventually moved up
the ranks to a very good
supervisory position frank and marie
married in and they had their first
child michael
in i believe this is while frank
was on leave from the navy
and then they had their second child
eight years later her name was carol and
she was born in .
by all outward appearances the hillies
had it all
they had good jobs they had the boy and
the girl
they had a solid reputation they had a
nice home
they had the american dream but there
was trouble brimming under the surface
for sure the first problem was marie’s
spending
marie likes lavish things and she spent
way beyond what they could afford
and this became a problem that escalated
so marie was this was also at a time you
know in the
s and s where you could take out
credit around town i don’t know if you
recall hearing this but so she was going
to all of these different places and
getting credit but then she couldn’t
keep up with the bills
and so by about
frank was he was finding out about this
and he was getting irritated
and she was at this point she had
collectors coming after her and she also
had
secret po boxes all over to hide the
bills from him
but he was on to her and he had been
tolerant of marie’s spending for a
certain time but
he was getting ready to put his fist
down but even more upsetting were the
rumors of marie’s many sexual liaisons
outside
the marriage which might have been
attributed to just rumor
but for the fact that frank hilly came
home early one day from work and found
his wife
marie in bed with her employer in their
home
so did a room hotel yeah no it’s true
right in your own home right so did he
leave her no
apparently frank confided in their son
michael at this time he was studying
seminary so he was you know doing
christian studies and he was married
at the time i was going to ask how old
he was he’s he’s an adult at the time
he’s out of the house and he’s a
religious man
and frank confided in him and i i don’t
know what his position was but what
happened was that frank forgave marie
and he stayed with her
which really would turn out to be a
fatal decision for him
in may of frank hilly began seeing
his doctor regularly
complaining of stomach pain tenderness
in the abdomen
nausea and other symptoms that were
seemingly related to
a terrible stomach flu i know where this
is going i’m sure you do yes
however his symptoms worsened and frank
would be in and out of the hospital
several times suffering from liver
failure eventually
disorientation jaundice i mean he was
significantly worsening so he dies
he died in may of but when he died
the doctor said it was likely due to
an infectious hepatitis which would
explain some of the organs certainly the
liver failure the jaundice
so at the time it would seem if it fit
somewhat with his symptoms
marie collected a life insurance policy
on frank of around thirty thousand
dollars
which went much further in the s
because we know that’s not a lot now
but for marie she went on a spending
spree she was buying things for herself
buying cars buying clothes
she spent the money real quickly so what
happens to marie
and carol and the family after frank
dies marie’s mother
lucille moved in with them for some time
but she died of
cancer while in marie’s care also
moving in and out of the home was her
son michael marie and frank their son
michael and his wife terry
and this is where things start to get
interesting they moved in for a short
time
whenever they were going to move out or
marie and carol were going to move out
their plans would be thwarted by a fire
so there would be a series of fires that
would impact their apartment for example
when
mike and his wife went to move out there
was a fire over at their new apartment
building
when marie was scheduled to move out
there was a fire in her house
it so happens that around marie a lot of
very questionable fires begin to happen
when it’s going to be you know also if
you think about it inconvenient
when when mike was living with her then
also she was getting help with the bills
and when she was living with him she
didn’t have to pay for certain things so
whenever it’s a little bit inconvenient
for a move there’s a fire
and this would put a serious strain on
the family
and their living arrangements but
eventually marie and carol alone
so marie and her daughter would move
back to anniston alabama
where sickness would curse their family
again did the grandmother pass away
the grandmother passed away supposedly
of cancer
she had cancer that was that was true so
they move back and this time it’s carol
who gets sick
coincidentally right after her mother
had purchased
life insurance on her and her brother
just so you know and around i think it
was around the same range of thirty to
forty thousand dollars
so what was wrong with carol she was
showing symptoms similar to her father
she had nausea abdominal pain vomiting
but then she began to experience
numbness in her fingers
her hands and her other limbs oh it must
be something genetic
yeah exactly well there you go carol was
admitted more than three times to the
hospital but doctors were
absolutely baffled by her condition at
one point they even had her
undergo a psych evaluation because they
thought that this was
her symptoms were psychosomatic they
they literally thought that she was
imagining this because they couldn’t
figure out what was going on these
symptoms didn’t make sense
but as it turns out carol’s sickness was
very real
and there was a very logical explanation
for it while carol was at
the hospital this was her third or
fourth hospital
one of her last trips that she made to
the hospital marie was arrested for
writing bad
checks because that’s what marie did she
took out credit she wrote bad checks
you know she’d been doing this for years
but it finally caught up with her
but by this time when she was arrested
and when she was in jail for this
the family had grown suspicious of
murray the reason why
carol had revealed to michael and to
other relatives that her mother had been
giving her
vitamin injections like vitamin
shots to help her with her sickness but
carol was saying that they never helped
in fact she always felt sicker
afterwards
and the family started to think about
this and so they picked up the phone and
they basically armed with this new
information
they contacted her doctors and carol’s
doctors
began examining other signs now they
began looking at carol and one of the
things that they did
when they found this information out
they looked at her fingernails and her
toenails
the reason why or what they found i
should say was these
white bands or white striations so
this is a symptom of arsenic poisoning
when you have too much arsenic in your
system
it deposits in your nails and so they
looked at carol’s fingernails and
toenails and she had these white bands
so what happens then is that they
conduct blood work based on that
and the blood work would reveal that
carol had times the normal amount of
arsenic in her system
so the doctors were certain that carol
had arsenic poisoning at this point
you know arsenic is a natural element
you it’s found in soil
it’s metal-like but it’s not metal we
ingest it
so they you know they there are times
where you will hear normal arsenic
amounts because we’re ingesting it if
you have rice if you have peaches you
know there are certain things so
where most people are going to have
arsenic in their system to have a
hundred times the
normal amount was severe and it sounds
like there’s no other explanation other
than someone poisoning you
yeah unless she’s ingesting arsenic
herself and i’ve heard this actually as
a defense when arsenic poisoning was
involved i’ve heard this used well it
must have been the person ingesting
over arsenic that’s not really a way
someone kills them i was going to say it
doesn’t sound
it doesn’t fit with that at all so what
happens now the police exhume
frank hilly because he died as well
they also look at marie’s mother they
exhume
lucille and they found that both of them
had
excess of the normal amount of arsenic
in their systems
as well a search of marie’s home and
things
also revealed that she possessed arsenic
so she’s got it you know she’s in jail
they’ve found this
they’ve exhumed the bodies marie was
charged with attempted murder on her
daughter
at first initially but the judge set
this low
bail less than fifteen thousand dollars
so marie was
able to post bail on an attempt to bring
up charges for it
frank at this point or lucille they
indicted her later so they were doing
all this what they knew
in the immediate and what happens in law
enforcement is that they had the
information they had the proof for carol
so they
you know right away they’re they’re
setting those charges but they had to
collect more of the evidence and they
were they would later indict her
for sure on the murder of her husband
she wasn’t indicted on the murder of
her mother because also her mother had
arsenic i don’t know how much it was
but her mother did have cancer so it was
really hard to parse that out so they
focused on the two healthy people
so why do you think marie got such low
bail amy she wasn’t a flight risk she
didn’t have any
priors yeah i mean those are the typical
explanations but since we look at women
in
crime through the gender lens i’m going
to go ahead and say it’s because she’s
also
an attractive female yep not per you
know she’s not uh
she doesn’t present the threat that we
might think of
and marie had a way with people she had
a way with men uh she had a way with
people
she could make herself more you know
desirable and i don’t mean that
in the sexual way but so she got this
low bail and i think it really had to do
with
um her gender so what does marie do when
she gets bail does she go home and find
a lawyer and start prepping for her
trial
nope marie fled she literally left and
in her absentia she was charged with the
murder of her husband
but also while she was gone his mother
carrie hilly died and marie had also
been her caretaker for
quite some time so they tested frank’s
mother as well
they tested her and they found elevated
arsenic levels in her system as well
wow so we are talking about a woman who
has
on the record pretty much poisoned
arsenic
killed one one maybe two people but
attempted four
murders wow yeah so she’s officially and
we’ll talk about this later but she’s
an attempted serial killer and if it had
worked she may be a serial killer in
fact
so many people thought that you know she
fled and this is the murder and this is
the interesting part but
i think that the story gets a lot more
interesting after she flees
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women a nd crime i don’t know about you
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dailyharvest.com marie is on the run she
leaves alabama and she heads for
florida or where she meets a man named
john
homan he’s a local boat builder and i
believe he was also a local
bodybuilder at some point remember marie
had a knack for meeting and attracting
men so this was not a surprise this
happened very
quickly marie was going under the alias
at this time of
robbie and she and john moved in
together
real quickly she took a job at some type
of administrative position i believe it
was another secretarial position which
she had been doing for
life and she claimed that she had this
very sad past she had lost her children
at a tragedy and that was it she didn’t
want to talk about it she was moving on
with her life and people obviously
john and others respected that she and
john married in
and moved to new hampshire so this is
she’s been gone for about a year at this
point
her next move though is so curious it’s
a very curious move because things were
going
seemingly well she and john got along
well they both had good careers
she was you know not under detection in
any way
but they were she was still on the mana
they were
looking for her they were looking for
her so you never know if that had
something to do with this in a which way
but still
she claimed to her husband that she had
been suffering
from some type of rare blood illness for
which there was really no cure
and for which she had to seek out
special treatments kind of setting the
stage that she could get very sick
she also began to tell john and her
co-workers about her
twin sister named terry who lived in
texas and who robbie would have to visit
to receive those special
medical treatments for her rare blood
disorder john was sort of like i want to
i’ll take you i’ll go with you and
she was like nope i’m visiting my sister
she’s got this and you know she had
already again laid the foundation that
she had a twin sister who was helping
her with finding like prime medical
treatments
robbie leaves for her sister’s house one
day in texas but she never comes back
instead john gets a phone call from
terry
who says that robbie died while in texas
seeking treatment
but terry would really like to come
visit uh john and get to get to know who
his sister had married
she said look we maybe can console each
other through this tragedy this was this
is a horrible tragedy i never met you my
sister loved you
and so i’d like to come meet you this is
crazy
this no this is absurd okay so terry
comes she’s but terry’s really murray
who’s terry is really robbie who’s
really marine
okay terry who is thinner than robbie
and who has blonde
hair now arrives and john
is fooled she manages to fool him he
said of course she looked just like her
but she’s thinner she’s lost about
pounds
and she has a different hair color but
she manages to fool
others around town as well for quite
some time and she gets a job there
another type of secretarial position was
she romantically involved with john
so it seems that they became
romantically involved in some point but
not married again i know this is i mean
this woman was
quite the con artist okay so she did
manage to fool people but
then there were others who were just
skeptical there were people around who
were like
this woman is clearly playing john we
don’t know why
but so really it was like the friends
and like amateur sleuthing
that led to some of the locals looking
into robbie’s death
so because terry had said you know
robbie died and so they looked into
robbie had an obituary
and it said where she was treated and
where she was buried and so
the people who knew john and locals
looked into this and they found that it
was like a false
hospital the hospital didn’t exist and
neither did
i think the cemetery wasn’t smart enough
to at least use a real cemetery a real
hospital
yeah that’s that part surprised me too
i’m not positive actually at the
cemetery but i know it was a fake
hospital so they were they they
contacted the authorities and they’re
they actually thought she was a
different fugitive at first there was a
fugitive with this
i don’t remember the last name but there
was a terry something and they thought
it was her
and authorities they they basically
apprehended her
and asked who she was and she admitted
right away to being audrey marie hilly
really and she was sent back to alabama
to
face the wrath that it awaited her she
had been gone for
three years she initially told them
however i’m audrey marie helly and i’m
wanted in alabama for forgery and
bad checks and so when they ran it they
were like
this woman is wanted for attempted
murder i wonder why she didn’t try to
get away with
because she knew they were going to get
onto her eventually yeah i wonder that
too i also wonder
what this mysterious upping and leaving
he clearly has some sort of mental
illness well we can i mean we’ll
definitely get to that in personality
disorders and whatnot
i actually think it might be so that she
married john
and there was official there was you
know official documents
and i think for one of the jobs she may
have even needed a social security
number and she was having trouble with
some of these issues so i think maybe
she thought like life with john was good
she liked life with john i think
i think maybe she thought if she could
not be married to him anymore
so she creates a new person because they
they will never get married she’ll never
have to worry about submitting sort of
some of these official documents
i’m not really sure but it’s a very
bizarre twist and he believed her
marie is transferred back to alabama and
she faced trial
in . it did not take the jury
long at all and this was for the
attempted murder of her daughter
attempted murder of her daughter and for
the murder of frank hilly oh
for her husband so she was indicted on
that at this point she was indicted if
you remember before i said in absentia
so she was gone and they died yes
yes so they tried her and they came back
rather quickly with a guilty verdict for
the murder of her husband
and for the attempted murder of her
daughter her daughter actually had to
testify
in court and i read in some documents
that her daughter was really conflicted
because
marie said i i didn’t do this to you i
love you you were
my whole world of course i had to leave
and of course her daughter that she
wants to believe that
you know i heard actually stacey
caster’s daughter talk about this as
well you know she wanted to believe
her mother loved her but in the end she
she did come to understand that her
mother poisoned her and
the prosecution was worried about what
kind of witness carol would make but
they said that she did
quite well and she was able to explain
very factually
you know i got injected at this point i
was sick at this point and so she was
able to show the jury
marie got life for the murder of frank
and
years for the attempted murder of
carol she was sent to a women’s prison
in alabama
where she was designated a minimum
security
level offender and you know what this
meant at the time
that she was able to go on work release
very close
yes and so it meant it made her eligible
for temporary
leave from prison otherwise known as a
furlough at the time that was a practice
being designated as a low-level offender
means she got weekend
passes out i think you’re gonna find the
next part a little shocking as well
amazingly her husband john
stood by her even knowing that she had
lied about becoming terry
uh lied about being robbie he stood by
her and
he even relocated to aniston alabama to
be near his wife
what this woman has a spell wow but
john’s
devotion to marie was clearly
unreciprocated amy because
oh that’s sad i know and you’re going to
see this
she took the opportunity on one of her
weekends away from the prison
to and with john she was with him and i
think they were at a hotel at this
point but she fled from the authorities
and from her husband
again oh i think he was out getting them
food or running an errand
this time however would mark a much
shorter time on the run for marie it was
cold
and marie this wasn’t a well-planned
escape she didn’t have any means she
didn’t have any money
she fled a hotel room with you know what
was on her
and apparently she had been outside and
roaming and
in the woods and exposed to the cold for
too long
what happened was she was found on this
local woman’s porch
and having found a totally incoherent
and clearly hypothermic
marie so she calls the authorities marie
was brought to the hospital
and treated for severe hypothermia but
her heart stopped
and she died i was not expecting that
and so marked the final escape by the
great con artist audrey marie hilly
at age . is this a movie yes
it is i was going to say how could this
not be it was a lifetime movie for a
long time how is this not a hollywood
movie
i don’t know story you can’t make that
up you can’t you can’t pick this up
i saw this as uh so i saw this as a
lifetime movie years ago it was called
like
wife mother murderer of course it was of
course something like that
but it started judith light do you know
her yes she was in um
what’s that called family ties now who’s
the boss
yes okay so she became a lifetime
actress years later by the way i love
her
and she’s great she was so good in this
role the movie
she played marie she played moraine it
was really it was really a good movie i
have to say it was a really good
depiction of her and i remember being
shocked by this but
since such time there was a book and
there have been some articles but this
is not a case that
is you know like stacey castro level and
maybe it’s because it was
so far back i was going to say it was so
long ago if it was modern day it would
be
yeah if it was modern day it certainly
would be so at
it was interesting because the woman who
found her also described
you know this she knew who audrey murray
hilly was i guess and said that this
woman
it was so sad she was you know cold she
was dirty
she was everything that marie hilly in
life you know
didn’t want to be i feel bad for john my
god i feel terrible for john
i mean i feel worse for the victims
obviously frank and
possibly lucille but poor john i know
that was a sad ending he was such a good
guy
yeah so okay uh our opinion here at the
end i mean this is not so controversial
but let me just say a couple things
first of all marie hilly is definitely a
serial killer
so i would use or an attempted serial
killer i would
use her case in women in crime and in my
serial killer class
and when i classify serial killers i
usually talk about the type
so marie was what i would consider a
classic prophet serial killer
she really didn’t enjoy the act but saw
it like as a utility
i think marie was psychopathic i think
she had all the traits of psychopathy
but when we look at the difference
between males and females
male serial killers tend to perform the
act for
hedonistic purposes either there’s a
sexual pleasure or there’s a power
control domination
sometimes they’re mission oriented
they’re trying to get rid the world of
certain classes of people
but very infrequently are male prophet
serial killers unless you’re talking
about like the ice man
so marie is a classic in that way that
she’s a profit serial killer
also what we know about women is that
they poison historically women poisoned
because of their roles in the home
and when they went out in the workplace
they were often health care workers or
nurses so they had access to poison
so this also makes her pretty typical it
doesn’t happen
as much anymore with arsenic it still
does
but this is a way that women poison so
that they don’t also have to manage the
physical aspect of murder it’s you know
much harder for a woman
usually physically to dominate a male so
marie’s a serial killer i think
that her the what i did have opinion on
was the low bail was set for her and i
think that was clearly a mistake
and the designation as a low-risk
offender and an allowance of a furlough
for a convicted murderer and someone who
jumped bail
and that was the so if you have any sort
of escape history you
you don’t get well nowadays they would
never grant you bail again
or a work release or any type of
furlough no
absolutely not her clear history she was
the most serious offender
designated the least serious and someone
who had like you said escaped so i think
the big miss here was
obviously the system underestimated
marie
and i really think it was marie’s
attractive demeanor and her station as a
middle class to upper class woman
that is the reason she received these
beneficial decisions amy do people still
get
speaking of furloughs do people still
get furloughs now at all no
yeah i don’t know i mean people in
jersey go to halfway you know
when they’re getting close to release so
that’s the closest thing we have to
furlough
but that’s not i wouldn’t consider that
a furlough but it’s a stepping stone
before you’re
on your own right there were like one or
two controversial cases that really
ruined furloughs
do you remember yeah say willie horton
so and
you know willie horton went on a crime
spree spree after he was granted
furloughs and so they were pretty much
halted in the country and i think that
was one in the
s it was it was around the same time
as the war on drugs
right all of that kind of the perfect
storm
anyway um so on that note uh marie hilly
was what i found to be uh she’s a serial
killer she was
almost a master con artist she wasn’t a
serial killer right
she was an attempted serial killers
three or more
but we don’t know that there weren’t
three carol survived but the other three
victims
had elevated levels of arsenal that yeah
so it is possible that she’s a serial
killer
and at the very least for sure
and a master con artist i might add
absolutely so
that was a really interesting case megan
thank you thank you so much amy
and thank you guys for listening yeah
thank you so much for listening and
we’ll see you next time on women in
crime
women in crime is written and hosted by
megan sachs and amy schlossberg
our producer and editor is james varga
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sources for today’s episode came from
the la times crimelibrary.com and the orlando sentinel