Episode Transcript
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In a crime that would shock the California
community and the nation the murder of
eight-year-old Sandra Cantu was pretty
quickly solved but the suspect who
emerged was the most unlikely of
suspects and left everyone asking why
This is episode 11 the Melissa Huckaby
story
[Music]
Hi Amy
Hi Megan
How are you today very well how are you
I’m good so usually we say we’re excited
about our cases this one is not one I
picked because I’m excited about it this
one though I should tell you is one i
picked because i really really want us
to dig in
using our criminologist roots this is a
case in which we’re going to look very
closely and take apart the causes of
crime or motivations and so that’s why I
picked this episode today I think it’s
really important year old mother
Melissa Huckaby lived in orchard estates
mobile home park in Tracy California
Tracy California is located in San
Joaquin County I think it’s about an
hour south of Sacramento and an hour
east of Oakland Tracy is often referred
to as the triangle because of its
location inside three major highways and
the way these highways framed it so this
town is backed up again so you have to
picture this as part of maybe the story
later against these major highways okay
so Melissa Huckaby lives in a mobile
home with her then five-year-old
daughter in Huckabee had grown up
in Orange County California with her
parents with two younger brothers and a
younger sister who was adopted when
Melissa was a bit older
Melissa was in high school at the time
and reportedly Melissa was almost like a
second mother to the little girl very
doting and very loving Melissa
reportedly had a normal childhood but
had periods of depression and according
to one report Huckabee had told her
friends that she was raped by a police
officer at age and after a brief
investigation by the Orange County
Police Department the officer was found
not guilty of any sexual charges so he
was completely exonerated Melissa’s
father and other family members said
that Melissa had a very difficult time
after high school and was very depressed
at times so that would also coincide
with her version of events which we’ll
get into later Huckabee moved around in
California a lot in her early s but
she eventually settled in Tracy near her
grandparents and their church so her
grandfather was actually the pastor of
this church and she lived with her
grandparents there’s more to her
background
I like to discuss though Amy and I’m
going to ask in this episode like I had
mentioned that we really draw on our
criminological training to assess
Huckabee’s actions so let’s get into you
a little bit more about her background
Melissa man a man in Tracy who became a
boyfriend but their relationship did not
last long and she wound up filing a
restraining order against him after that
relationship she met Johnny Huckabee so
he would later father their daughter
Madison and the two would get married
but their’s would also be a very brief
marriage and Melissa would after they
split she would accuse him of being an
alcoholic who was physically abusive she
accused him of child attempted child
abduction of their daughter he denies
any such charges and I’ll tell you what
he had to say later on but Melissa was
granted full custody of their daughter
Madison and he really did not see her
very much after the divorce was
finalized so from about on he
really wasn’t a steady part of his
daughter’s life shortly before their
marriage before Melissa and Johnny
married Melissa had filed for bankruptcy
so melissa was not financially sound and
after her divorce she moved to LA County
but she was arrested for petty theft in
and quickly returned to Tracy
following this arrest where she taught
part-time Sunday School for her
grandfather’s church and spent most of
her time with her daughter which is why
she lived with her grandparents how old
was a donor sorry
the daughter at that time was about well
in the daughter was five so uh
I got a little Melissa had trouble
keeping a steady job for sure and then
in January Huckabee was arrested
again for theft for trying to steal
something from a local target she
pleaded guilty and was given probation
but as a condition of the plea she had
to meet with a caseworker from a mental
health court who would report on
Melissa’s progress but things went
downhill pretty quickly after that and
so now what you’re also seeing is that
Melissa has she has a history of
depression and we’ll get into that a
little bit more
she has criminal charges though they’re
their petty thefts
she has unstable relationships certainly
with men
and she has a history of moving around a
lot so unstable residents and unsteady
jobs so this is part of the picture I
think we need to understand what
happened things went downhill after this
arrest and another mother who lived in
the orchard estates mobile home park
Laura Polk reported Melissa to the
police after Melissa took her then
seven-year-old daughter for the day
Melissa took the seven-year-old girl
without the mother’s permission and she
returned her at the end of the day and
the girl was seemingly very drowsy and
almost hi as they described her own son
type of substance the girl said did she
report her missing or so she did not
report her missing
the girls the kids went out and played
you know maybe she was getting a little
bit worried about her okay
I almost want to say that she maybe knew
the girl was with Huckabee for a short
amount of time is supposed to come back
earlier so she took her for longer than
she should have the girl said that
Melissa took her to a Wendy’s got her a
drink that tasted funny and then they
went to some parks like through the
course of the day and that was all she
could remember Laura Polk took her
daughter to the hospital because she
later on in the day actually she said
her daughter just was not doing well and
she wasn’t holding up well and she was
seemingly so drowsy she was like let me
see what’s going on and they found
muscle relaxants in her system so Laura
Polk went to the police but they didn’t
believe her they actually thought that
she might have done something to her
daughter herself because she had a
history of drug use and she had a file
with Child Protective Services so they
really didn’t investigate Melissa the
police have since apologized to Laura
Polk but talk about a missed opportunity
because just a few months later this
mistake would have really devastating
consequences here’s what happened on
March year-old Sandra Cantu
last seen on a surveillance video
skipping through the mobile home park
where she lived the same one where
Melissa Huckaby lived was seen for the
last time alive and Sandra was coming
home after a school day and usually
Sandra would look for kids to play with
and I think it was he even said she came
home after school played with some kid
for a little bit and then came back and
was seen skipping at about : p.m.
very close to : p.m.
and all of a sudden they can tell they
pretty quickly determined that Melissa
Huckaby Lord
Sandra over and kind of got her to go in
her car and the two left a few minutes
later in Melissa’s car which was
captured on surveillance did they know
each other
Melissa so now that’s the question why
would Sandra get in a car with a
stranger she wasn’t
Sandra knew Melissa very well she
actually played with Melissa’s younger
daughter so it makes sense that you can
trust her and I hate to say it but as we
talked about the gendered lens she’s a
woman yeah so Sandra is going to be more
trusting that we think of her in terms
of getting into her car Melissa took
Sandra to the church where she taught
and where her grandfather was a pastor
and she gave her a xanax what yep she
gave her xanax likely incapacitating her
and then she sexually assaulted the girl
with an object which we’ll talk about
later and she murdered her shortly after
yes she murdered her with well that
escalated quickly it’s and I’m gonna
talk about the timeline and how relevant
this timeline is as well she murdered
her by they called it homicidal
asphyxiation and it was she murdered her
with a noose tied cloth she basically
strangled her with a cloth so she
sexually assault and then murders the
girl in the church where her grandfather
is a pass was anyone in the church at
the time I don’t think so no no it was
like after hours it was a it was a
weekday – was your typical church time
Melissa then from the church she calls
the property manager at orchard estates
where she lives and she reports that her
Eddie Bauer suitcase was stolen from her
front yard and this would come to play a
very big role in the case going forward
so she’s calling presumably with a
timeline right after she’s murdered
can’t – mm-hmm and reporting her
suitcase is stolen
she was then spotted by a couple I think
he was a former Marine and his wife
shortly before : p.m. at the
irrigation pond where she had just
thrown Sandra Kant whose body in the
suitcase in the suitcase she’s okay so
she spotted by a couple she’s just
coming out of like the bushes I think it
was and I mean she must have been
panicking at this point the couple kind
of says to her what are you doing she
says I’m so sorry I just stopped you
know I had a pee and an irrigation pond
is also like a kind of a swampy you know
it’s where plants are and it’s
it they describe to smell so it’s not a
nice place anyway to sum this part up
Melissa committed this violent crime in
approximately two to three hours and
likely more like two to two and a half
hours which actually makes sense though
according to statistics because when a
stranger abducts a child they are
usually killed within the first three
hours and so Sandra was dead before her
mother even reported her missing so
there was no chance here now you’re
saying what what we can also I can also
attest from teaching and Amy probably
knows as well first of all stranger
abductions are not common people tend to
think there’s this idea of stranger
danger it’s usually someone you know
someone you know a parents and
acquaintance and an abduction by a
female mother to a female child and a
sexual assault and murder this is almost
this is so rare this is probably the
rarest of all types of homicide against
children honestly I can’t think of
another example I can’t think of another
example either where something like this
happened when mothers kill and mothers
it’s not to say that a mother would not
kill a child because they do kill their
choice but it’s usually their own
children and there are usually reasons
why and sexually assaulting another
child the sexual assault a woman
sexually assaulting a young girl is very
rare in itself so it’s very rare and
usually when it does happen it’s not
normal to happen when it does happen
it’s usually with or at the behest of a
male partner like in what’s-her-name’s
case
Carla hum oh yeah right right exactly so
that’s a good reference and a perfect
point so that is the crime lead out the
police and FBI were really quick to
intervene as did the entire community
they were searching you know within
hours unfortunately as I’ve just told
you the sad part of that is that we know
is that Sandra Cantu was already dead
mm-hmm Melissa didn’t do herself any
favors so okay she was the first person
to provide the police with a tip so she
found a note where they lived and this
was this was hours after the murder um I
found one account that said the next day
so I’m not sure if it was the next
morning or you know that night but
shortly after she finds a note she says
basically it said Sandra Cantu was
locked in a stolen suitcase and thrown
in water on
Chetty and white haul roads witness wait
it’s like someone I know this is so
bizarre right but that’s also what she
did suitcase and water why would she be
and I guess she wanted the body to be
found okay so this is question and then
the location is exact Welsh I spelled
stolen wrong she spelled stolen sto Li n
almost like she was trying to spell
incorrect maybe she just can’t smell I
don’t think so because she was trying to
spell it incorrectly but the police go
to the location and they find Sandra in
the suitcase the very suitcase that
Melissa reported missing Sandra was
found in a fetal position wearing the
clothes she was last seen in on that
video surveillance yet it’s awful really
awful
they found a benzo drug in Sandra’s
system and so the medical examiner
determined that the cause of death was
homicidal asphyxiation but there was
also the finding by the medical examiner
that Sandra was sexually assaulted and I
won’t go too deep into that just to say
yeah there was DNA and there were
contusions to the genitals so there’s
more evidence the couple calls into the
police department explaining that they
had seen Melissa Huckaby at this
location with her car they recognized
her because it just happened and you
know they told the story that she gave
which oh I was just stopping for a
bathroom break so please get a warrant
to search the church where Melissa
teaches because melissa is now coming up
as someone just odd and they don’t
actually think at this point that she’s
killed Sandra yeah because their profile
shows anything very different it’s gonna
be a male a sexual predator and they
talk about their profile you know
between and mm-hmm but they feel
like it’s odd that she’s inserting
herself into this investigator they
search her trailer too or they went
straight to the church so they went to
the church and they this was right now
so they go to the church and they find a
cut up cord from the blinds so I guess
she cut the blinds and used the cord to
tie the suitcases to wrap it around they
also found blood spatter and they found
the rolling pin that I just talked about
which had Sandra’s DNA on it
geez when they go to Melissa’s home now
they now they’re looking for an
interview okay and they were gonna ask
her for an interview and to take a
polygraph
the police find out that melissa is not
at home she’s in the hospital because
she has swallowed a bunch of small razor
blades and she tried to kill herself and
it attempts clearly to kill herself so
now they’re going whoa this woman is you
swallow razor blades you know I don’t
know there are those I think those what
are they called I don’t know what
they’re called there’s like the tiny why
wouldn’t you just take pills or say
having no idea I often wonder about why
someone you know do you mean like
clearly something’s not right
oh no no and there’s definite when I
already said that she was diagnosed with
mental health issues now they’re looking
up into Melissa’s history and they find
out that she’s got previous convictions
she has mental health is no violent
offenses she does not have any violent
offenses this is very true so she’s not
a violent offender but she does have
they find she’s been diagnosed with
bipolar disorder and she’s been mandated
support therapy they find out about this
other woman who you know had her
daughter her daughter was taken and at
some point you know had something
slipped in her drink it’s also reported
by an ex-boyfriend of Melissa’s that she
drugs him once as well for which he was
arrested for a DUI so it was an it was
discovered that he had a xanax in his
system so and he wasn’t drunk it was
just oh so he I guess and I’m not sure
what the conditions are before but he
left her home at one point after
spending time with her and this was not
that far in advance of Sandra’s murder
just so you know you know maybe within
six to nine months and he wound up
somehow in like a McDonald’s parking lot
pulled over totally passed out and maybe
he was even like near the drive-through
or something like maybe tried to make
yeah and he had absolutely no
recollection whatsoever how he got there
he’s gonna remember it was kind of
interesting cuz we talked about the
effects also of xanax and I’m sure she
put an overdose or you know a lot in but
people were quick to say like oh you’d
remember and other people said no no
there sometimes you actually don’t
remember we’re gonna assume that she put
enough into his drink but he was
actually prosecuted charged and
convicted of duis and he was not
intoxicated on any type of alcohol
though they were going to arrest Melissa
at this point anyway but the event that
triggered the arrest is also one of
those that you just have to question and
this one is really leaves me asking why
on April th Melissa calls Sandra can’t
whose mother I’m sorry how long after
was this okay so March okay when
Sandra so this is two weeks they didn’t
solve obviously they didn’t arrest them
illicit yet but they’re on to her and
they’re going to and they’re definitely
going to arrest her they’re collecting
the evidence building case okay but no
one else knows so Sandra’s mother does
not know what’s going on and neither
does anyone else in the community
they’re keeping this tight-lipped on
April th Melissa calls Sandra’s mother
and asks if her other daughter can come
over to spend time with Madison her
daughter okay but Madison isn’t home at
the time and how do we know that
thankfully the police were surveilling
Melissa and listening and on April th
Sandra’s sister luckily was not there so
Melissa was gonna do the same thing to
her sister well that’s the question we
don’t know what what was the purpose of
her asking for if the daughter had been
there maybe it’s like I’m I’m upset my
friends gone I went but her daughter
wasn’t even there her daughter wasn’t
there and that’s the and it wasn’t
anywhere near the home and wasn’t go out
so the police are like that’s so the
real concern is here was she going to do
something to hurt him or it could have
been you know how could be was panicking
did she want to pump her for information
like what’s going on with your sister’s
case no does your mother know how old
was that daughter was she also quite
young she was also young I don’t know
what the difference was the police are
then like you know we’ve got to act yeah
so they arrest Melissa because they are
just like we’re not taking any chances
with any other child’s life that was the
right call so they arrest Melissa on
April th and they sit her down for an
interview and she talks without a lawyer
or I’m always surprised when people talk
without a lawyer
I guess because I just you know I just
assumed that but at this point people
know to ask for a lawyer but Melissa
says no problem and at first she sits
down and denies that she did anything to
Sandra absolutely not
then the police tell her that they have
statements from the couple who saw her
at the irrigation pond and Melissa
becomes hysterical crying and explaining
that the whole thing was a big accident
how was it an accident you might ask Amy
just got your next question yes okay so
she says that her daughter and Sandra
were playing hide-and-seek and Sandra
got into the suitcase
and her daughter must have closed her in
or sandra was able to close herself in
and sandra suffocated to death in the
suitcase okay does she think the police
don’t know about her injuries I mean
come on she’s so she’s saying suffocated
and and so she says she panicked cuz she
knew everyone would be mad and she
wasn’t supervising and she you know she
was the bad mom in this case so she
basically panicked and she threw
Sandra’s body over or into the
irrigation pond but they have enough
evidence against point to show that this
really isn’t true they also found so
when they went through her apartment
they were easily able to connect her to
the note so they found like the same
notepad that she wrote it from the
imprints on it she also wrote some other
weird things like everything will get
better some some other odd notes that
she wrote it but you know the quote was
something like you definitely didn’t
need to call it a handwriting expert
nails okay yeah it was very very easy
they also found which I thought was
interesting computer searches on her
laptop you know people like you know
Google is trackable but they found these
searches about a murder she had saved an
article where a suitcase was used to get
rid of a body so this is their other
going not only did this happen but this
was premeditated yeah this is real
premeditation now because that was a
search from a while back they are
developing or they’ve developed I would
say what I would call pretty
overwhelming evidence against her and
she’s already admitted to you know
having something to do this crime so
Melissa
winds up being represented by a public
defender I think the plan was to go to
trial
however Melissa winds up pleading guilty
to the murder of Sandra Cantu in
exchange for a life sentence those are
the death penalties absolutely the part
of the plea deal that was appealing was
that the death penalty is taken off the
table and Melissa will not plead guilty
to sexually assaulting Sandra why
insisted she would never admit that she
sexually assaulted Sam she still denies
that absolutely she insisted that was
entirely untrue and she stands by her
story of the hide and seek so I’ll talk
about what she said and in her apology
and her sentencing hearing as I
understand it she did not necessarily
offer a new story okay but did seem to
admit
that she did something bad without
giving the details so there’s no way to
deny that this girl was sexually
assaulted though so I looked into that
because I was thinking that like maybe
maybe she really wasn’t like is it
possible she had contusions from being
molested you know what I’m saying it is
possible however I’m going to say I
wasn’t going to say this but I will the
rolling pin that they found had her
blood on it
okay it was bent in such a way that
corresponded to regions and injuries
okay little area so it seems there was
no question that the medical examiner
seemed very very certain a sexually
assaulted all right
it left very little room hmm so but what
are what are the reasons why she might
insist so I looked into this because I
can come up with two reasons in my mind
why she would not admit to sexual
assault first of all I’m just thinking
she doesn’t want to admit it because
she’s ashamed as she should be she
should shame but she also has she has
parents she has siblings she has a
grandfather as a pastor and she has a
daughter mm-hmm so I think this is you
know part shameful and there’s even more
of a stigma on women who commit these
types of crimes against children
the second reason though I think is more
of a practical one when you’re in prison
if you’re a child molester then you’re
at the bottom of the totem pole yeah
that’s yeah that’s the practical reason
she may have recognized pretty quickly
and also from being jailed because she
was in Jim ember she didn’t get bail she
said it’s been enough killing a child
you put molestation on there forget
about it your she would get killed it is
rough in prison for any sex offender
that is the worst of the worst and she
was also very unstable in terms of you
know depression you know she wasn’t sort
of this strong outside alpha type of
personality she seemed almost just
gradual or fragile is not the right word
but you know what I mean so yeah so I’m
gonna say that she went with the
practical reason there so what happens
is there’s no trial because Huckabee is
admitting to guilt which I think thank
God for the family they don’t need to
relive that I think so yeah I think it
would have been really difficult and I
think everyone was probably glad
although I think they were annoyed that
Melissa wouldn’t take full
responsibility will have preferred the
death penalty is there I couldn’t wonder
I actually don’t recall hearing their
preference on whether or not I am sure
that the prosecutor
went to them though and gave them the
not the option the prosecutors will
often consult the family and in this
case I’m sure they asked if this was
preferable of course there was a
sentencing hearing and it was very
emotional there were I think Sandra’s
aunt was there and she played like a
video montage of Sandra with some music
and there wasn’t a dry eye in the court
put it that way
Melissa also opted to give a statement
now Melissa didn’t have to give a
statement if she didn’t want to she’s
getting a life sentence no matter what
she gave about I would encourage people
to go on and look at the sentencing –
because there’s an arraignment that
there’s video online and then there’s a
sentencing and Melissa gave a very
tearful I would say I don’t know maybe
five minute statement and in her
statement she apologized directly to the
Cantu family she was crying the entire
time she you know it wasn’t you know you
could tell it was an emotional time for
her she apologized though but she said
even in her statement that she did not
sexually assault Sandra and that Sandra
did not suffer and so I think it was I
think they were incensed by that she
also went on to say I think what the
Cantu family was hoping it was they that
she would say why you know I think they
just wanted to know why it has happened
and so she went on at the very end to
say that she still could not understand
why she did what she did and she wished
she could offer them an explanation but
she just could not okay
well that’s why why maybe she’s just
snapped it has like you know people do
things that they’re like holy shit how
to do that you know who knows could be
that she just had a mental break she
hasn’t admitted the truth about what she
did so that against me right there if
she committed a sexual assault but went
to say I did not do this so I can’t
explain what I did yeah it’s obviously
still in some part a lot yeah no you’re
right we also had a couple of people
speak out like you know who knew Melissa
so what what what happened yeah there
were a lot of different things so
Melissa as I described the the
instability her ex-husband said that she
was not violent and he actually net was
very surprised that this happened he
said she was depressed and she had a
terrible self-image news reports also
came from relatives of Melissa’s so her
uncle spoke out a heart aunt spoke out
and her parents did an interview as well
and they I’m you may described a pretty
normal Melissa until high school Melissa
you don’t know when she’s telling the
truth or not because she has a history
of lying here however most of her
friends and most of her family members
recall the exact story that she told
them of being raped by a police officer
she did actually file charges so we did
see that it was verified by one of the
news stories and reporters who went to
Orange County there were charges that
were filed and they were dismissed
so by most accounts her behavior did
change and was a lot more erratic and
unstable after her th birthday well
you said she was diagnosed with bipolar
she was diagnosed with but that was
after she was this was after
correctly but the family did note and
some of her friends from childhood did
note that Melissa had periods of
depression before but a depressed person
doesn’t do what she did know so a
doesn’t fit the profile it does not fit
the profile and her husband said again
she was depressed and could be negative
self-image but wasn’t a violent person
most people said Melissa wasn’t violent
and most people said she was a loving
mother although there was one or two
reports I saw and keep this in mind that
said her daughter was sick a lot okay
keep it in mind because now we’re going
to talk I think I’ve covered the
elements of the case the investigation
what happened to her now is where I
really want to dig in and talk
motivation okay so there were
allegations that Melissa may have
suffered from Munchausen by proxy and
inserting herself into the investigation
may have been a symptom of it what is
Munchausen by proxy
okay so Munchausen is when you make
yourself sick to draw attention onto
yourself Munchausen by proxy is when you
make someone else sick or you do
something to someone else to draw
attention to yourself usually Munchausen
by proxy involves a mother making her
child sick to get it like in Blanchard
what is her name
oh yeah the Gypsy Rose yes Gypsy Rose
yes yes absolutely oh that’s a classic
Munchausen by proxy so that’s why I said
keep in mind her daughter was sick a lot
and someone said was at the doctor’s a
lot more there were no no allegations no
charges there but just keep that in mind
so Melissa had a history of mental
illness she set fires according to the
prosecutor he said that he believed her
finding the note in reporting the
suitcases stolen was a ploy for
attention like she wanted to be the one
to solve this okay and she also had a
history of cutting mm-hmm I saw that she
had a history of suicide attempts though
did not see when and what the the
methods of suicide one so she’s clearly
marked by instability I’m gonna go
criminologist on this one and disagree I
don’t think this is Munchausen hmm I
don’t know enough about her daughter’s
background so if I found out that her
daughter was in fact hospitalized a
number of times for serious conditions
and Melissa was given a lot of attention
I might go with the agreement here but
I’m gonna go with two different
criminological theories unless you have
something before I go nope you go
alright and then I want to know if you
agreed this yeah we would add to it okay
so first explanation most friends and
family reported that Melissa went went
off-track following her senior year
which is consistent with Melissa story
that she was raped and if if this was
true and her rapist was exonerated this
would have left Melissa with some very I
would say strong feelings of stress and
anger mm-hmm so in our field we talk
about strain theory and strain theory
for people who don’t know it means that
someone experiences such a stressor in
such a way when they don’t have the
coping skills that help deal with the
event in a healthy way and the ability
to process they turn to offending and
it’s possible that’s what Melissa did
this is obviously not by any measure a
common response to sexual assault and
what victims do but it is a means or it
can be a response to offend in different
ways if you do not have the ability to
cope with what has happened to you but
like I think you kind of touched on it I
would agree except for the fact that she
went really big really fast right so I
know she had minor crimes but it seems
like to deal with strain killing a child
like well but she didn’t go big go fast
she was testing it out yeah for sure
yeah she drugged her boyfriend she’s
planning yeah she’s she’s you know
looking at I mean she didn’t go it
wasn’t the emotional reaction per se but
it seems like she was looking for an
outlet she’s testing it out on this
other girl giving her this is just one
possible explanation blade it’s a
criminological theory that people will
have certain events that impact them so
severely that they will turn out and
they will read they will offend against
others as a means to deal with stress
alright so I’m gonna go to second
explanation which I actually my second
explanation also relates to criminal
logical theory
and I think this one is the stronger one
I would say the second explanation
relates to a theory called control
balance theory mm-hmm and this refers to
the idea that someone will commit crimes
if they feel a loss of control or if
they have too much control so it’s too
little or too much control it’s just
like an imbalance in their life when
people have a lot of control to exercise
they usually commit crimes of greed
right so like greedy corporate executive
executives who have no oversight but in
cases where people feel very powerless
and where they’re not in control they
commit predatory crimes such as sexual
assault and it’s a method to gain power
back and I actually think that Melissa
may have taken her anger out on Sandra
for this reason I think she committed
crimes predatory crimes because of her
lack of control and the way she felt
powerless in her own life and I think
her choice of victims relates more to
their vulnerability and also the
opportunity for her so people might say
why young girls well these young girls
would trust her they would easily go
with her
also females as a practical
consideration do not have the same not
always have the same physical strength
as males so she’s using smaller you know
younger vulnerable victims who she can
physically also manage so I would say
those that’s how her she selected her
victims it was by opportunity and by
physical that’s the that’s the reason I
don’t think her choice of victims and I
think that has anything to do I don’t
think her choice why sexually assault
why not just kill her well because
that’s a predatory crime the sexual
assault you know when people sexually
rape is about just a control how we’re
in that also I mean when tiddalick so
it’s it’s Charles tittle explains his
theory of control balance it’s all about
gaining control and power that it’s not
satisfying a sexual needs and I actually
think in fairness Amy I don’t actually
think the I don’t think the intention or
the need was to murder her I think that
the sexual assault was the primary crime
and I think the murder was probably the
way to cover it up yeah no I think those
are valid theories the only other thing
that came to mind was social bond a
little bit because it seemed like she
had trouble with attachment commitment
involvement right so we know that in
social bond Theory people that do not
have strong bonds to I guess pro-social
institutions or
people right so it sounds like she she
had family she had a daughter she had a
church she would guess but she you know
she was bouncing around with jobs and it
seems like she with relationships so I
definitely don’t think there’s as strong
event of course there’s attachment
theory which you could look at a little
bit but it sounds like it doesn’t fit
that well this one is a head scratcher
for me it’s a head scratcher if it
really is not and I all same cut I also
went to you know she was diagnosed with
bipolar I saw another diagnosis that
said she had schizophrenia I don’t know
if that part is actually true there was
she never said I did it because you know
she never gives an explanation did they
even talk about like insanity or
incompetence at all yes yeah they found
her confident but they also talked about
well I know they didn’t really talk
about it but I think from the beginning
also when I was explaining her patterns
and her but sounds like borderline
personality yeah me so she’s a
borderline to me unstable yeah
relationships highs and lows back and
forth which is very borderline
personalities oftentimes confused with
bipolar disorder that you can be and can
have very similar symptoms so they don’t
often escalate to violence know this is
a rare case and and again I would never
want to imply that a rape victim will
usually respond by someone else that is
not characteristic that not the truth
but this is one of those extreme
situations so for me I think that I
think that how could be suffered a lot I
mean obviously she was mentally ill but
I really think that she felt out of
control and powerless and committed a
predatory crime and then tried to cover
it up with the murder and no possibility
of parole for her so there’s gonna be no
possibility of parole for her so the
sentence is is probably appropriate a
full full on agree with that sentence I
wonder if Sandra can two’s family agrees
with that sentence
I hope they at least have some you know
the peace of knowing that their
daughter’s murderer was caught and she
will never ever get to spend a day with
her own daughter and you’ll see a lot of
times victims families actually don’t
advocate for the death penalty it’s not
gonna bring back their loved one right
and they realized that well that is
everything we have for today I know this
one was a real yeah this one was a tough
one but I’m glad we dug into and tried
to look at the root causes all right
thank you so much everyone thanks Megan
see you next time
Women & crime is written and hosted by
Meghan sacks and Amy Schlosberg our
producer and editor is James Varga our
music is composed by desert media
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Sources for today’s episode include The
Daily Beast; People magazine; and ABC News