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This is episode 3 the Karla Homolka
story
[Music]
Hi Amy hey Meghan so I’m really excited
to cover my case I know that we
sometimes begin by why we chose the case
that we chose and this one is one in
which I really have substantial
questions about the justice system about
personality disorders this one almost
has it all and I find myself you know
gravitating towards especially towards
female cases in which there is a
crossover between victim-offender and in
which there are just so many factors at
play here so I will say this case has
been one I’ve been fascinated about by
and also angered by a lot so I think
you’ll hear why and I’ll get to that so
let me start first of all have you ever
heard of Karla Homolka I’ve heard the
name but at the honest I do not know the
case you got me two times in a row I
love it I’m sure that won’t be the theme
for the rest of our lives but it’s good
because it’s helpful when you know we
don’t know so much about it it’s a
little more boring if you know
everything about it and we’re just
nodding at each other in this room so
okay let me start with Karla Homolka
so Karla was born in and grew up in
Ontario Canada as one of three girls in
a seemingly normal household her father
was a checklist lavake an immigrant and
her mother was a native Canadian she was
the eldest Karla was the eldest of three
girls and her household gave the
impression of middle-class normal but
her father did have a drinking problem
that was noted and at times would fight
with Carla’s mother at times would fight
with Karla and her sisters it was said
that Karla would sort of mouth back at
him and you know dismiss him but they
still had a good relationship and there
was never any type of violence reported
in the home so never any physical
violence Karla was smart she was pretty
popular and she loved animals reportedly
from a young age which is why she became
a veterinarian tech after she graduated
high school but there were also reports
that Karla was bossy and controlling
from a young age but not outwardly
violent so let’s be clear about that
we could never find anything any reports
of violence in her background she could
be happy she could have I heard this I
mean this to me sounded a very standard
for teenage stuff though she could be
happy she could have hi she could have
lows at some point she had an interest
in the occult in high school but who
doesn’t at some point you know
describing a sort of golf period for her
that was short but it doesn’t seem that
that was serious Karla had boyfriends in
high school as I said she was pretty and
popular and she was sexually active but
nothing serious until she met Paul
Bernardo and this meeting would change
everything I was she had that point
Karla was when she met Paul now have
you heard of his name Paul Bernardo I’m
assuming he plays a huge part in this
story he does okay so who is Paul
Bernardo Paul was a handsome smart and
charming year old when Karla met him
in Toronto in October this was or
following a pet convention she and a
friend went to have a bite in to eat in
the hotel you know I was thinking the
same thing well I guess she was a
veterinarian but it just sounds so fun
so is this for veterinarians or is like
you bring your dog and hang out
it’s like Puppy Bowl I’m not sure well I
know that she and her friend so they
went they were staying at a hotel now
she’s young – she’s she’s by herself
they’re having a bite to eat in the
hotel and in in the hotel restaurant and
in walks Paul Bernardo and by all
accounts it was literally like they
locked eyes the heat was on the
intensity the electricity you could feel
it in the room and that’s how their
friends described it so they meet and
just a couple hours later they are back
in Carla’s room having sex they quickly
intensified they they kind of quickly
were drawn to each other and they didn’t
wait that long there huh no they sure
didn’t wait that long they they they
quickly gravitated towards each other so
all right let’s find out a little bit
more about Paul so Paul’s home life was
different than Carla’s though Paul was
the youngest of three children and his
father was problematic or his
relationship with his father was his pop
is
there was a known peeping tom and he was
also an accused child molester who was
accused of actually sexually abusing
Paul’s sister and then so there’s a
strain in the family but then Paul finds
out from an argument that he had with
his mother when he was about or
she tells them you know he’s not even
your real father
so Paul finds out that he was actually
the product of an extramarital affair
and he became infuriated infuriated with
his mother all right how old was he when
he found this out he was or okay
so this was earlier it’s : today it
was earlier he was angry at his mother
though and reportedly after that you
know he starts degrading her calling her
name’s and there is and so the sexual
offender was actually her stepfather yes
because it’s not technically he was
raised as his real father but
technologic not a good to clarify though
there was no bayan biological thread
connecting it to Paul and his mother and
the father the relationship was very
strained and it deteriorates
but Paul went on to the University of
Toronto and Scarborough and he became an
accountant after graduating and so by
all I mean by all standards you’re
looking at this guy who was successful
and you know he’s got a good career
interesting fact or fun fact they also
said that Paul wanted to be a male
rapper I’m I think he had some like
equipment like some equipment in his
house and I think he may have composed a
little and you know maybe dabbled in it
he did not make it in that regard but
it’s just it’s it’s an aside kind of
thing so Carla fought when she met him
this was it she met her dream man and
she quickly proved that she would do
anything for Paul Paul relish that being
the master he was a dominant personality
he was older than her Carla was very
pretty and popular but from what I read
and understood she wasn’t that
self-confident and so I think when she
got the attention from Paul she felt
like she had hit the lottery but she
didn’t know immediately she would find
out rather quickly though that Paul had
violent tendencies and the women that he
dated before Carla had reported ending
their relationships with Paul when he
became abusive degrading and actually
violent so he’s got a history of
violence her family likes Paul
even though they understand that there’s
a six-year age difference and I’m not
sure about you but my family wouldn’t
have been happy about that I remember
when I was dating someone who was
actually and I lied about the age I
said he was like or this would not
have but this is you know it’s a
significant age gap not when you’re
older but to is and there’s an
emotional maturity that obviously is
done is that even legal I guess in
Canada I was thinking the same thing
but I guess it must have been I think
it was legal so at the same time there’s
something else going on at the same time
in or let’s say between and
there was a serial rapist plaguing
Scarborough and the police formed a task
force the I think they called it the
green ribbon task force they collected
and submitted DNA samples they were you
know investigating and the rapist had
attacked several girls before they
actually got I won’t I don’t want to say
lucky but they got lucky in that one of
the victims was able to give a very
detailed sketch and so she met with a
sketch artist and they put together a
composite sketch and they released the
composite sketch and it looks just so
you know exactly like Paul Bernardo
could you actually look it up oh yeah oh
yeah look it up okay because you know
when we see these sketches when we cover
Melanie McGuire we talk about these and
a lot of sketches the likeness you can’t
see or maybe you can interpret it and
say I don’t know maybe it is maybe it’s
not but that’s worth it pretty good man
you’re gonna look it up and people who
are listening please do look it up we
encourage you I I would call this not to
be like kitschy but I would call this a
dead ringer what happened was the police
released this sketch as like front-page
news
and they get calls flooding in and a lot
of these calls are saying this is Paul
Bernardo like we know this guy okay so
there they put them on the list right
they interview Paul they call him into
the station but he’s looking it up I
don’t know and he’s looking it up right
now what do ya I think it’s good it’s
pretty okay so the police call him in
because
so many people called to say I really
think this is Paul Bernardo okay so they
interview him he comes in he sits down
he talks to them he actually matter of
fact he says something like yeah I saw
this composite and I have to admit looks
a lot like me right and so they asked
him for a DNA sample so what do you
think he says to that no wrong he goes
sure they take a DNA sample from him in
okay
at the time I believe they said and this
is you really understand this is early
in DNA science you teach about this so
you this is this is before we really got
familiar with using DNA became regular I
think at the time they may have had one
forensic scientist who was doing the
testing and I think they had I mean I
know they had thousands of samples
however that being said this composite
sketch looks exactly like him you have
several tips calling it in I think like
you have to prioritize I don’t know that
they did that as opposed to just put it
on the shelf and whatever order it came
in okay so the DNA sample goes on the
shelf
Paul has given it he leaves he would
think that he would be you know nervous
if he was doing something wrong but Paul
seemed they said pretty comfortable and
sorry if this is an obvious question but
he lived in the area in which these
crimes were occurring
he sure did okay he lived in the area
okay so here’s what happens he and Carla
they are dating they are you know very
very close Carla does realize though
that Paul has these violent fantasies
the thing also is that Paul is upset
because Carla was not a virgin when they
met he wanted a little virgin as he
would say and so Paul had become
obsessed with Carla’s fifteen-year-old
sister Tammy so this might not be
relevant but one of my students today
was wearing a shirt that said virginity
rocks male or female male sorry I just
couldn’t not share that there you go
everybody’s thinking about fraternity
today so okay Paul became obsessed with
Carla’s fifteen-year-old sister Tammy
because Tammy was a virgin and Paul was
overtly obsessed with her
it’s telling Carla so creepy I haven’t
think so too right she’s at Carla’s
Tammy’s agreed I think they’re both a
little young but the thing is here you
would think that he was you know he
would tell Carla this and she would be
horrified and revolted no I don’t think
she liked it don’t get me wrong but
Tammy Paul would flirt with Tammy and
Tammy and Paul would spend some time
alone together and I think reportedly
they actually went out one night
together to a party and Paul leader told
Carla that they made out yes her sister
and him so this is nothing yet just so
you guys know what Paul really wanted
for what he wanted for himself was
Tammy’s virginity this story is it this
is pretty bad okay Carla works for a vet
tech right she stole a halothane have
you ever heard of ethane it’s an
anesthetic so it’s used to put animals
to sleep I shouldn’t know where this is
going and I’m not comfortable with it I
don’t think you gonna be comfortable
with any of this okay she stole how the
famous anesthetic from the veterinary
clinic where she worked and on December
rd after Carla’s parents and her
younger sister because she had a third
sister second sister sorry went to sleep
they invited Tammy to stay up with them
drinking and of course time he wanted to
I think she may have even liked Paul as
well you know he was the good-looking
older guy of you know my sister’s
boyfriend
so Tammy stayed up drinking she was
having rum eggnog and Carla slipped into
sleeping pills into Tammy’s eggnog and
when Tammy passed out Karla and Paul
raped Tammy yes
and when I say Karla and Paul they both
raped her sister filming it as well and
let me just say filmed it these tapes
would become very important just like
those journals you talked about these
tapes would become very important piece
of this puzzle
they put sleeping pills but Karla also
then took that housing on a rag and put
it over Tammy’s mouth and nose now how a
vein is a powerful chemical and it’s not
usually administered directly to the
skin so it burned her so what happened
was that while they were raping Tammy
she began to vomit and choke Paul and
Karla scrambled
okay they start scrambling they put
Tammy’s clothes back on her they move
her from the basement she’s totally
unconscious choking she has brahmic
coming out of her mouth everywhere but
then she loses consciousness with the
bombing they said they attempted to
revive her they move her to her bedroom
they called and they tell them this
that she’s been drinking and she’s just
drank too much and gone you know over
her limit they transport her to the
hospital but Tammy never regained
consciousness she died she died early in
the morning of Christmas Eve and what’s
even more absurd is that the police
accepted Carla and Paul’s version of
events that Tammy got very drunk and
began choking and eventually lost
consciousness now why this is so absurd
maybe it looks like that I’m gonna ask
you and I’m actually gonna ask the
listeners to go ahead and search a
picture of Tammy Homolka you are going
to see chemical burns on half of her
face that are dark reddish and purple
burns from the halothane and when the
police asked Paul about it apparently
what Paul and Karla said was that it
must have been rug burns from when they
moved her I also heard I don’t know if
they said it but they possibly thought
that it could have been burns from the
acid from the bomb it coming out of her
mouth you’re looking at the photo yes
they are some serious burns it is
shocking that this version of events was
the one that was totally accepted but
what happened was that Tammy’s death was
ruled accidental and no charges were
ever brought against Paul or Karla but
Paul was obsessed with Tammy even after
this and actually Paul was angry with
Karla very angry angry correct so he
said you killed her so to appease Paul
because Paul now starts stepping out
Karla may have thought Paul was having
affairs or doing other things he was
doing other things what he was doing
we’ll get to in a little bit but to
appease Paul and basically to keep him
Carla invited her on suspecting girls
over to their house so even after
Tammy’s death she’s inviting Tammy’s
friends over like hey come hang with us
party with us
we’re like the cool older people will
get you booze and what they were doing
really is drugging and rape
and filming at all one of the girls was
even actually I believe at Karla and
Paul’s wedding the girls had woken up a
couple of them woke up and had no idea
what happened because they were so
substantially drugged they knew that
they drank too much these are young
girls but they didn’t know at the time
or didn’t report that they had been
raped so this activity it just went on
with the two of them engaging in this so
Tami dies and Karla and Paul would marry
six months after in just two weeks after
a girl named Leslie Mahaffy went missing
I just ask a quick question
do you know if Tammy’s parents suspected
any foul play this is the best question
because they they accepted totally at
face value as well that this was the
version of events they at most I assume
or I can’t even assume but at most they
may have blamed Karla and Paul for
giving Tammy alcohol for being a minor
but no they did not they did not suspect
why would you ever think that someone’s
sister would ever do that of course and
they loved Paul they thought he was a
great guy so they didn’t think that
anything was wrong here again I said
this is two weeks after a young girl
named Leslie Mahaffy goes missing who’s
Leslie I’m happy well one night in June
Paul is out cruising at like :
a.m. and we’ll get to you know why he’s
cruising around but him pay for any good
reason no one’s cruising around at :
a.m. pretty good reason unless you are
like a patrol officer you know Paul
spots fourteen-year-old Leslie Mahaffy
outside of her house and she’s locked
out Paul offers her a cigarette and I
think he told her some bogus story about
how he’s gonna like rob one of the
neighbors and maybe being a little bit
rebellious and you know thinking he’s
kind of a cool guy like you know we
can’t say why but Leslie took him up on
his offer to have a cigarette with him
and so Paul said okay we’ll just come
back to my car with me I have a
cigarette but remember you just looked
at the picture of Paul he looks young
he’s not remember our monsters they
don’t look like what we think they’re
gonna look like so Leslie went back to
Paul’s car with him and when she did he
basically forced a forced her at
knifepoint into his car and then he
brought her back to the house where he
lived with Karla
over the next hours the two of them
raped this poor girl repeatedly they
raped her they sodomized her and they
filmed the whole thing by the way
because Paul fancied himself something
of a camera man as well a producer he
made the girls say just like he had made
he’s very degrading he made you know
Lesley and Carla I always refer to him
as the king and and refer to themselves
in degrading ways and they I mean they
filmed this poor girl they filled her
crutch you know that she was crying and
pain and she’s terrified and they taped
this and the film here the tape would
show that Carla also participated in the
act of sexual assault so just keep that
in mind okay after they were finished
with her there was a problem apparently
they had had some type of a blindfold
over her face but I believe the
blindfold came off and she got a look at
Paul and so after you saw him anyway
when they were smoking you know when
they first met she did yes same good
point but Carla maybe at this point I
think that they Bernardo knew that he
was going to have to get rid of her and
so Carla gave her some sleeping pills
and then Paul went in and strangled her
with an electrical cord it took more
than one like he kept strangling her
because she kept gasping for air so
here’s what the this gets worse though
for me and when they finally choke the
life out of her he decided that you know
how are they gonna get rid of her so
they decided to dismember her now we’ve
dealt with this issue of dismemberment
in the Melanie McGuire case and we know
a lot about it he decided this remember
her so he got plastic tarps and he did
this in the basement but then he also
went out apparently and got that quick
dry cement and he encased her body parts
in cement blocks and then he actually
threw them and I think it was eight to
ten blocks in a lake near Saint
Catherine’s in Ontario Canada fishermen
found her body on the day Karla and Paul
got married and dental work at least
quickly helped identify the girl as
Leslie Mahaffy and that’s how Leslie
Mahaffy was found after being missing
for two weeks so Tammy was the
accidental murder but this was
intentional
yeah after Leslie Mahaffy there’s
another girl that they encounter so this
is the are they actively seeking out
people at this point or is it crime of
opportunity
Paul is actively seeking out people and
I believe it was always Paul that was
actively seeking out people and even
though this may spoil it for you later
I’ll just let you know that Paul was the
Scarborough rapist and during the time
that he is also doing this he is also
actively raping women still and Carla
knows about it he would go out and say
I’m going out to you know rape someone
and Karla wouldn’t know that he was
assaulting Karla Karla reports that he
was she says that he was its disputed
whether or not she’s just gonna come
into play but it’s disputed whether or
not she fits the mold of like a battered
woman and we’ll talk about that in a
little bit okay what happens after
Leslie Mahaffy is that the last murder
they would commit unfortunately not
fifteen-year-old Kristen French would be
abducted while walking home from school
on April th but this time it was
a more brazen abduction and this time it
was both Karla and Paul who abducted her
in broad daylight
so Karla and Paul were driving and
pulled over into a church parking lot
where Kristin was walking by Carl was in
the passenger seat and she got out and
pulled out a map and pretended hey were
lost and could you help us and they
asked Kristen for directions and they
look like normal people right so of
course Kristen got closer to help and
when they did she was accosted and
forced into the backseat of the car I
don’t know if it was at knife point or
what but they forced her in and they
sped away in their gold Nissan and why
this would be important was because
actually a lot of eyewitnesses sword saw
this abduction yes people saw it they
called in but a number of them reported
that it was a beige Camaro that the
assailants were driving and so the
police plastered signs of beige Camaro
everywhere right so they were looking
for a car and a Nissan don’t even
resemble each other I don’t think so I’d
be certain models maybe certain models I
didn’t think that much so but the odd
thing is that multiple people reported
beige Camaro and you know you know with
eyewitnesses sometimes any formation
effect and they feel so certain it was
like I’m certain this was it so this was
the only lead police had to go in I’m
wondering if all the wooden
says were there together and someone
heard one person referred to it because
that’s how the misinformation effect
works that’s one person could have
implanted that idea that’s a really good
question I actually don’t know but it’s
a great question
oh yeah no no her and her saw her story
is much worse actually and I saw the
press conference by her father so I’ll
talk about this but they kept Christian
alive for several days they tortured her
they raped her they forced her to watch
a press conference that was given by her
father it’s it’s so upsetting when you
see the press conference and the father
crying and just you know we love you
we’re doing everything we can and we’re
gonna clean nose before she died I’m
assuming she died at least she knows
that her family was looking and they
loved she didn’t know this yes they
forced her I guess Paul was forcing her
to drink to try to you know loosen her
inhibitions degrading her making her say
terrible things but in the end I have to
tell you Kristin defied him and we
threatened to kill her in the end
according to a book I read and will
definitely throw some of these sources
up so people can see but in the end
Kristin said some things are worth dying
for
because she wouldn’t consent she
wouldn’t say it yeah I thought so as
well you know unfortunately it didn’t
work out well for her but that sounds
like she was okay with that like you
said some things are worth dying for
I think she thought at first she was
gonna escape but I think she probably
came to realize that that probably
wasn’t going to happen and she wasn’t
going to go down by degrading herself so
what courage on a fifteen-year-old girl
I found that to be one of the most
impressive parts
unfortunately they killed her on Easter
in and they dumped her body in a
ditch her body was discovered I believe
it was rather quickly and the police
luckily were able to link the cases
together they linked Leslie and Kristen
they had similar injuries they were on
the same age they were not found far
from each other and they sought help
from the FBI actually which is
interesting because this was in Canada
but an FBI profiler said that you know
this was likely someone who is a young
male in his s which often happens but
they did pinpoint the s so a young man
when his s who is physically abusive
to his current partner probably or has a
history of violent sex
crimes and he so they did they they had
a profile that fit the bill so what
happens now with Karla and Paul by the
way Karla also participated in the
sexual assault on Kristen French Karla
participated in all of the sexual
assaults none of the murders ah that’s a
good question so we’ll see about that
later all right so what happens with
Karla and Paul
Karla says that they that Paul had been
abusive but there’s no documented abuse
ever until
so Karla and Paul had a fight in January
and Paul beat Karla severely with a
flashlight is that the three black guys
that’s the two black guys that call it
the raccoon picture okay so he he beat
her in the face so badly you saw the
black and blues for people who
questioned whether or not it was real
take a look and you’ll see it was very
real
Karla was put in the hospital and Karla
moved out after that now it’s kind of
interesting because things when they
went down they went down pretty fast so
believe it or not Karla moves out and
finds a new boyfriend real quick so it
was interesting because Paul was the
love of her life and sort of her master
and Paul and Karla were together at that
point for almost six years and she finds
a new boyfriend I just thought that it’s
really not relevant to the story but I
thought it was an interesting part you
know the people who are under someone
else’s seeming control I don’t know how
quickly that happens
shortly after though Paul’s DNA is
finally processed this is after by the
way about two and a half years they
process his DNA remember they collected
in a okay so the DNA confirms what
you and I already know and what people
probably already know that he is in fact
the Scarborough rapist police then
linked this DNA match to Kristen French
and Leslie Mahaffy and so they know that
they’re on to Paul Bernardo and they
realize not only is he the Scarborough
rapist but he’s also the killer of these
young girls ironically at the same time
Karla files a police report against Paul
for the domestic assault so the police
used this opportunity as a chance to
interview Karla now Carla thinks she’s
being interviewed about the domestic but
they really know they’re going in to
find out everything they can find out
remember she’s leaving her husband now
they don’t know what if
roles she plays she may be the
unsuspecting she almost implicated
herself in a way exactly Amy she did I’m
glad you pointed that out if she had not
gone forward we don’t know if this would
have turned out differently but Carla
realizes pretty quickly that the police
are on her trail as well and she winds
up telling her family the truth about
the crimes that she committed and the
fam sister as well where’d she wait on
that one I mean did she admit that she
had a part she did admit that she had a
part in Tammy’s murder as well and I’ll
talk about the impact it may have had on
her family her family rallies around her
though and they get her a lawyer and
what happens is they start negotiating
of course and Carla winds up getting a
lawyer who would advocate for her to get
immunity and the crown said no because
she had admitted that she was a part of
the crimes but she should probably say
how much a part she misrepresented her
role I would say she said that I was
there I sometimes held a camera so she
agrees to testify against her husband
for a deal and I’ll tell you what the
deal was in a minute Paul is arrested on
February th one of the things
that Carla had told them was that I did
do this we did these crimes and there
are videotapes
so after he has arrested the police
execute an extensive search of their
property I mean it took like I think it
was something like over a month they
just kept going back to the house and
searching the problem was that the
police could not find the tapes that
Carla was referring to second of all I’m
not really sure why Carla would have
informed them about the tapes knowing
what they were gonna reveal about her
I don’t know if she thought it would
prove it would corroborate what I’m
saying that Paul is this person I’m not
sure if she knew how much DNA they had
so what happens well first of all this
was actually coined as the deal with the
devil Carla was given a -year sentence
in exchange for a plea an exchange for
her testimony against her husband Paul
Bernardo in his trial in May she
testified against him for straight
days which is uncharacteristically long
the only other person I know who
testified for that long is Jodi arias
please tell me that it was videotape I’m
sure I mean and what
wasn’t on like Court TV or anything it
was not so there was uh this was an odd
thing and a lot of I guess Canadians
were upset about this there was a lot of
there was a ban on press some press were
allowed in I don’t believe they filmed
it it wasn’t released to the public
there was if they wanted to the press
wanted to be in I guess also on Karla’s
plea deals because they had a Konishi
had to make like an allocution but they
were a band from that and they were a
little and people were angry without
that and slaughter
slaughter no not for her sister for
Leslie Mahaffy and for Kristin French
and she only got years for to run
concurrently which means together so she
gets years Paul however was convicted
on several counts of murder aggravated
sexual assault kidnapping and other
violent crimes I think there were nine
or ten in total and that would even seem
low to me to be honest but what also
emerged during trial was the tapes it
turns out Paul’s lawyer had found the
tapes and he held them because he was
using them against Karla well she had a
plea deal and please community she
didn’t get immunity well she did she got
a deal for her participation she was
getting years not to be prosecuted
past that or for anything else but his
lawyer finds these tapes and holds on to
them and they do come out at trial and
people are horrified so what was the
strategy there how would they help his
client know I think he did intend to use
them against Karla but it just happened
the plea happened too quickly and then
he had them and then I think it was a
question oh no I did read something
there was a question of well what do I
do now cuz today they show Paul doing
all these bad things but they also show
Karla and what the tape showed was Karla
was not a bystander she was not a victim
she was just vindictive it wasn’t
vindictive it was strategic the strategy
just didn’t work but what he was
supposed to do
when you find tapes the physical
evidence he was supposed to turn those
over to the police and then he probably
should have resigned as the attorney if
you have we both know if you have a
client there’s attorney-client privilege
but not when an attorney discovers
physical evidence of the crime at that
point he was obligated to turn that
evidence over so he didn’t turn that
evidence over for something like
months he was prosecuted later for
obstruction of justice and I believe
possession of child pornography because
showed underage children he the charges
were actually dropped against him but
that is you know so the tapes come out
people are horrified because Karla has
gotten this deal of years and when
they saw she was active she raped the
girls she egged Paul coming they didn’t
show it in public it was just for so
here’s what happened they did not show
the tapes but they played the audio the
only people who were ever shown the
tapes were the jury members and the jury
the jury was shown the tapes they had to
see the tapes but the jury after the
trial was over and after all of the
legal proceedings were concluded the
tapes were destroyed okay so Paul was
convicted and Paul gets life in prison
with the possibility of parole after
years but he’s designated as a dangerous
offender which basically means in Canada
you’re never gonna get parole and he was
quite young he was he was when he
wasn’t trying five is he’d still be
pretty young oh that’s correct yes and
what happened though at trial was really
interesting so the defense never tried
to say that Paul wasn’t a rapist what
they said though was that he wasn’t the
killer Karla was and how they showed
that they said well obviously Karla is
jealous he brings these girls into the
home he starts paying attention Karla
had actually described at one point
being annoyed because I was mad because
Paul used our good champagne glasses
with one of the girls the girls that he
was raping and killing and so they they
argue it was actually Karla who is the
Carlos the one who’s putting halothane
giving him sleeping pills and they said
look he’s a serial rapist and he’s a bad
guy but he never killed one person until
Karla Homolka came into the scene so
she’s the real bad guy regardless the
jury didn’t buy it
okay so Karla was sentenced by the way
Carlos started her -year sentence
while she’s testifying against Paul you
have a question before I go on to give
us the conclusion
I just occurred to me this is the Ken
and Barbie killers isn’t it and I was
going to say that at some point but yes
it is the media dubbed them and I should
have said this earlier because I didn’t
think I knew the case because it was the
media again like you said dubbed them
the Ken and Barbie killer so I knew the
Ken and Barbie killer so then as the
case is going in like this sounds
familiar the media dubbed them Ken and
Barbie because they were spawn so blonde
and both blonde and beautiful and
there’s
pictures of them they’re there in their
bathing suits and they’re smiling and
again they don’t look anything like the
monsters we think they’re going to look
like so Carla is sentenced to her
years she serves her time in a Canadian
prison in Quebec but after her years
she is released and she did an interview
it was reported she kind of had a high
profile she didn’t have such a bad time
in prison so they showed pictures of her
she had some relationships in prison
with women she made the most she got I
believe a degree in prison so she she I
don’t think she complained about it but
when she was released she relocated at
one point to a Caribbean island for some
time she changed her name was she on
parole or just released she max out so
she had some type of supervised release
right after but once that was up she
went yes but then she came back to
Canada and it turns out she got married
and had three children and guess who she
married who her lawyers brother
her lawyers brother correct I know it’s
it’s like who would think that this
would be a great candidate for marriage
her lawyers brother so she has three
children I think it was shocking so the
press wasn’t able to find her for a long
time because she went under another name
it was LeAnn and when they found her
they saw that she was carrying what’s
that called you know you have kids the
thing you put babies in car seat one of
those things okay so you know and then
it was like reported Karla Homolka has a
child now she came up again in the news
recently so not too long ago there was
the press found her and they found that
she was volunteering at the elementary
school of one of her children and the
people the parents there were outraged
they were not upright you know and out
at her oh yeah she was outed she was
outed and people were super angry
because here what you have is a woman
who’s committed sexual crimes against
children volunteering it didn’t take the
school long to prohibit that type of
volunteer service but Carla did remarry
and she does have three children and I’m
sure they’re going to have quite the
price to pay for you know the sins of
the mother Paul Bernardo came up for his
first parole in and he was denied
and I am certain he will be denied
always I think that Paul will remain in
prison for the rest of his life
Paul was designated on the the hair
scale of psychopathy you know that
checklist for how you determine a
psychopath he was he rated very high
interestingly Karla did not but I looked
back and I looked back at that I have
kind of the cheat sheet and when I
scored her and you know granted I’m not
the expert here necessarily on
psychopathy per se but she wasn’t low
but she wasn’t high I think that Karla
has traits of antisocial personality I
think that she’s also very vacant you
know they showed some videos of her
actually going through the house when
they wanted her to detail the crimes and
she was like can I have that book or can
I have that rug they want to take this
with me I should clean this you know she
was sort of disconnected from reality
she did sound disconnected so here’s my
opinion in the end this case okay first
of all I don’t know why they didn’t
rescind the plea offer so they left the
plea offer stand the prosecutor the
crown there felt that Karla was a victim
but she lied in here and I believe it’s
the shame I understand no she didn’t but
she lied and when you make a plea
agreement when your plea agreement is
contingent upon the information you give
panning out Karla’s information was a
lie and they found out that it was a lie
so I think technically they could have
rescinded that offer also when they saw
the videotapes they could have rescinded
that offer because they saw that she
played a much larger part that’s what
I’m saying that they could have
rescinded but they chose not to and the
crown stuck by the deal
the public was absolutely outraged about
it secondly I think the deal was too
short regardless so Carla did use a
battered woman syndrome and you can
decide for yourself and I hope that
listeners will decide for themselves
what they think but I think that it was
much more Karla was a much more active
participant and in battered one woman
syndrome it is really about the fear of
your abuser and I have to say that I’m
not sure if in this case I think she
feared Bernardo in some ways but I think
what she feared more was losing Bernardo
I think she wanted to keep him at all
cost and I think she kept engaging in
these crimes that get further and
further deeper in because she didn’t
want to be without him
she did say something to this effect
later on I think we can assume our I I
don’t know what do you think about her
sentence I think it was too short I
think the fact that there was all those
victims and she’s able to live a life
and have children and be married
it’s just survivors were not afforded
that opportunity I know she was young
when she got sent in so she reinvented
herself but I don’t I don’t feel like
there’s remorse there from the little
bit I’ve heard no I haven’t seen a
really remorseful Karla Homolka really
ever to be honest the fact that she
could do that to her own sister shows a
different type of evil I think so I
think so too and I think that was the
point to you know that she actually if
you think about it she actually did this
to her sister she raped her sister and
she killed her says in her family
disowned her once so here I said I would
tell you this apparently her family
stood behind her and they felt that she
also was victimized and you know I think
that Karla had said that they hated what
she did and they hated that part of her
but they felt that Bernardo was really
she was a battered woman and that she
was Janice I’m sorry I’m very
sympathetic to women who are abused and
women who claim battered women’s
syndrome but I don’t feel that way in
this case at all yeah I don’t feel that
way in this case either and I’ve
reviewed a lot I know this case really
you know pretty well I should say and I
don’t know other evidence of her being
abused besides that one time with the
two black guys she told friends that he
was verbally abusive but I don’t know of
any other physical injuries aside from
that one which was very brutal don’t get
me wrong okay this was also at the end
of their relationship though to at the
very very end not when she was
victimizing those other girls exactly so
I guess we won’t know how to disentangle
this for better for worse though Karla
Homolka is a free woman today and Paul
Bernardo is in prison likely for the
rest of his life which i think is
probably place for him so let’s hope
future parole board’s agree and that’s
it for today thanks everyone for
listening
[Music]
Women & Crime is written and hosted by
Meghan Sacks and Amy Schlosberg
our producer and editor is James Varga our
music is composed by desert media
The sources I used for this episode
included articles from the Toronto Sun
that Ken and Barbie murders by Peter
Vronsky and a documentary by serial
killers documentaries