Darlie Routier

Episode Transcript

This is episode 7 the Darlie Routier story

[Music]

Darlie Routier is one of just six women
sitting on death row in Texas she was
convicted of the brutal murders of her
two small children but recent media
attention has called this conviction
into question
so as Darlie the monster the prosecution
says she is or is she just another case
of a wrongful conviction hi Amy hi Megan
so I’m excited to discuss this case with
you today not just because I love
talking all cases with you but because
Darlie routier is has come up in the
wrongful conviction arena which is sort
of your wheelhouse
so what do you know about her have you
heard of this case is this one that’s on
your radar can you tell us yeah you know
most of the wrongful conviction
community at least that I’ve heard of
its kind of split on this case oh that’s
very interesting yeah and to tell you
the truth I’m a little bit split as well
okay so I’m interested to hear a deep
dive into it to see if that changes my
opinion at all okay so you know some of
the facts but not all with no surface
amount yep great all right let me get
into it then so as we usually do before
we actually get into the case facts
let’s talk a little bit about Darlie
routier as background and who she is so
Darlene Lynn Peck was born in in
Altoona Pennsylvania tulare Peck and
Darlie ki and she has one sister Danelle
but after her parents divorced Darlie
relocated with her mom and her
stepfather to Texas her sister and her
mother remain her strongest supporters
and I’ve seen them both doing a lot of
media coverage so Darlie met Darin
routier in Lubbock Texas where Darin was
an assistant manager at the restaurant
where darlie’s mother worked and that’s
kind of how they met it was set up by
the mom it’s the story goes something
like this the mom tells it and I’ve seen
it she says something like he came up to
her and said so I hear you have a
beautiful daughter and she was like
indeed I do have a beautiful daughter
and they met and they got quite young
they were teenagers so these they’re
actually pretty much high school or they
were high school sweethearts
so Darlie and Darin married in and
moved to Raleigh which is near Dallas
Texas it
more of a quiet family suburb Darrin
started an electronics company named
test neck which made circuit boards and
it was a thriving business so they
started to make money rather quickly in
their early s and they started to live
a very nice life so they bought a house
a nicer house than they had been
accustomed to they bought cars I think
they were starting to go on vacations
Darlie had some plastic surgery done
which would really come into play later
on so we’ll talk about that and you know
they started to enjoy their hard work
they Darlie worker he made enough of no
Darlie was a homemaker but she had no
kids at that point she did well no she
did she had kids right yeah quite young
so they started to make money you know
early and Charlie was a homemaker Darlie
love to have people over at her house
she had three boys Devon
six at the time Damon five and an eight
month old named Drake and these all come
into play later on today and when I say
at the time they drink
I did say Drake we were ahead of their
time that was before Drake it was but if
you notice the theme Darlie Darin Devon
Damon jerk-off so yeah I think that was
I think that was the theme okay so
Charlie had three boys she loved to have
people over and was described by most
people as a doting fun-loving mother she
was sweet she was bubbly by all
appearances Darlie and Darin had a happy
family life and we’re doing well until
the tragic crime that played their
family let’s talk about the crime here
Darlie promised her two boys a sleepover
in the living room because school was
out and so they wanted to do like a
slumber party and so she said okay one
night and so she and the boys stayed in
the living room when you say that boys
I’m assuming the two older boys yes
sorry
she and the two older boys Devon and
Damon six and five at the time stayed in
the living room one night while Darin
and the baby slept upstairs and this was
on the evening of June the th so
Darren and the baby are upstairs safe
darlie’s downstairs and Darlie said that
she woke up to her son hearing her son
Damon
saying mommy in in a strained voice and
she said that she woke up and she woke
up to a struggle she remembers a
struggle with a male and then she said
she saw this intruder basically run
through the house towards the kitchen
and then she heard something break like
a glass
she says she remembers rushing like to
the kitchen like rushing after him she
was definitely injured at this time she
says she also remembers rushing after
seeing a knife picking up the knife so
she picks up this knife and then she
says she saw Devon laying up side sort
of upside you know faced up and she saw
him laying this way in the living room
and he began to see he didn’t begin to
scream rather she began to scream for
her husband Darren to come downstairs
she describes this as being very chaotic
there is definitely some confusion about
the order of events and I would say
Darlie from everything that I’ve heard
was mostly consistent with her story but
she couldn’t remember everything however
there might be good reason why which
we’ll see in her version of events she
does not recall being stabbed
however she recalls a struggle which
will come into play later on so she also
because she was inconsistent it’s
possible she was bleeding and she was
injured at the time so this – stabbed
she was stabbed and we’ll talk about
where and when but she was definitely
stabbed she was bleeding she was injured
so it might explain some of the
disorientation and why she couldn’t get
well also shock from that traumatic
I think shock – no no doubt about that
but there was so there was so much going
on that people have said her statements
were really inconsistent I’ve looked at
them listen to them I didn’t find them
as inconsistent as people might say you
know she she basically recalls waking up
to an intruder hearing her children
chasing screaming for Darren to come
down the stairs what happens after that
Darren comes downstairs and Darren
started CPR on Devon because Devon was
actually still alive
Devon was the younger one or the middle
Devon was the older child he was the
sick sorry okay okay so Darren started
CPR on Devan although Darren describes
it as sort of like I think blood was
just coming out it wasn’t it wasn’t
helping Darlie called
I’ve listened to the I encourage
everyone to do so or to listen to the
— call she sounds absolutely
hysterical to me screaming my babies
have been stabbed my babies my babies
get here I need you to I think there
were some directions you know they’re
trying to keep her calm although I have
to be honest every time I hear these
— calls I think the calming
techniques are just they go like you
need to calm down that’s the worst thing
to say to someone so I think yeah so
Darlie was hysterical they did you know
give her some directions they did say
there’s gonna be an officer coming by
soon but later on I heard someone say
that Darlie was so calm on the call
and I’m thinking that’s ridiculous
anyone who hears the call will hear the
hysteria in her voice well we both know
that you can’t judge the way people
respond to trauma some people actually
get really calm
some people go crazy some people black
out some people get hysterical yes I
hear this all the time Amy everyone
judges these calls he was too calm he
was too upset you’re damned if you do
damned if you don’t right so I’m gonna
say to our listeners don’t judge
people’s guilt by — calls oh it is
not a good measure or their assets at
all really it’s true you know you cry if
you don’t cry you’re cold if you do cry
you’re a faker and damned if you do okay
so Darlie calls one listen to the
call for yourselves Darren was doing CPR
on Devon Damon was lying on his stomach
crying in pain so he was still alive I’m
not sure if if Darren had I’m sorry if
Devon had made any noises at this point
but the D names are really just two D
names are too much so Damon was
definitely still alive however both boys
would not make it so both boys would
ultimately die from being stabbed to
death multiple times did they die pretty
quickly or did it take a little while to
succumb to their wounds I believe that
it was pretty quick so one of the boys
was already deceased when paramedics
showed up
Damon was still crying out but it didn’t
take long for him to pass unfortunately
I know it’s terrible this is a terrible
case but I feel I’m covering this too
because I feel strongly about it so now
what about Darlie right what were her
injuries well she had a slash across her
throat a huge slash if you haven’t seen
it and it missed her carotid artery
by just something of a millimeter which
is really close now if it hit her
carotid
she would have been dead she also had
bruising I don’t know if you’ve seen
this picture Amy but she had bruising on
one of her arms and you know when you
say black and blue
no she had black from her wrists all the
way up to close to her shoulder yeah
I’ve seen the picture completely black
though I’ve never seen black like that
before and and so it was completely
black she also had a cut on her arm that
went down to the bone and her bone was
sticking out so those were her injuries
I think if people want to see there is a
picture a very famous picture online you
can look at Charlie laying in a hospital
bed you can see from the picture that
she was pretty badly injured though that
would be disputed very much at trial but
those were the three injuries that were
notably sustained by Darlie routier all
right so after this crime happens and
after darlie’s rushed to the hospital
and she’s laying in recuperation There
is obviously an investigation so let’s
talk about the investigation and what
evidence was found there was a screen
cut in the garage which would come into
play in a bit and there were bloody
footprints inside the house there was
also blood everywhere the foot prints
I’m assuming did not match Darlie well
hold that that so there was a bloody
footprint there was also I believe a
bloody fingerprint there was so like I
said they were sorry there was blood all
over the house Darlie said she fought
with the intruder but the police were
becoming suspicious of Darlie on the
call she mention picking up the knife
the intruder held almost as if she was
covering for why they wouldn’t find
prints on this knife or that’s the way
it was Bisset positioned you know so I
touch the knife so you won’t find any
prints that’s too bad we could we can’t
get prints that’s the way it sounded but
actually if you listen to the dispatcher
the dispatcher told Darlene not to pick
up the knife and Darlie was just
responding saying oh no no I touch the
knife oh my gosh it was taken out of
context it was taken out of context okay
darlie’s blood was found underneath a
glass so remember she said she heard the
intruder knock over a glass like a
broken glass in the kitchen so police
said if that was the case and she ran an
F
her blood should be on top of the glass
and not underneath it does that prove
anything I don’t think so
alternative explanation do you have one
I could think of one so I’m thinking
people were in that crime scene
yeah people move the glass the glass
moved blood was everywhere I don’t think
that’s so much curious I’m sorry if
we’re gonna get to this but at what
point did she become a suspect quickly
like while she’s lying in her hospital
bed oh yeah they start because they had
no one else so they just start tunnel
vision that’s exactly what happens when
you have no one else you know when you
and when you have a crime of violence
like this one people obviously want
someone right away and darlie’s alive
and her children are dead so they give
this this this blood on top of the glass
I think this is a weak piece of evidence
prosecutors say the cut screen had dust
that was undisturbed we’ve heard this in
other cases before I’ve heard this in a
number of cases what it means when
they’re saying that dust is undisturbed
is that nobody passed in or out of the
window because the dust wouldn’t be
there or it would be in a zigzag path
stage crime scene so they’re saying if
it’s yes if there’s a cut in the window
but the dust is still there then nothing
actually happened but you have to see
the demonstration that Darin routier did
to understand that this might have been
totally undamaged as a supporter of his
wife’s innocence so Darin routier is and
we’re gonna get to him in a bit all
right he is a supporter of Darlie yes I
can tell you that we’re still together I
will get sorry okay I love how you’re
jumping the gun but I’ll get to their
status but what he did was a
demonstration that was videoed and you
could see that the window that they’re
referring to it was low to the ground
and when I say low to the ground I mean
a foot from the ground and it was huge
like a tremendous oversized window so
Darin shows everyone he steps right in
right over the ledge and steps right out
it’s almost like walking through a door
meaning like you could do it without
disturbing you could absolutely do it
without disturbing the dust and he was
so he wanted to show people okay this
window that you’re talking about with
the undisturbed dust it’s not a normal
window where someone’s hoisting their
self through there okay fine so you have
the window you have undisturbed us
prosecutors also noted that they found a
bread knife in the kitchen and when it
was examined they found that fiberglass
rods were on the
and a rubbery compound which was found
on the screen so basically the
prosecutors are saying that she used the
bread knife to cut the screen from the
inside and that’s why you found these
fibers from the screen and the bread
knife could they be explained those
fibers be explained in any other way
well here’s where cross-contamination
might come in okay if they dusted both
the screen and the window and the knife
it’s really possible that the
fingerprint person cross contaminated
this evidence and we certainly know that
this happens and has happened but the
problem is the defense didn’t have
anyone to refute this very damning she
have a private defense attorney or
public she did and we’re gonna get to
who her attorney was in a minute too
because you may note that Kapena was a
good one Amy for anyone who listens
direct appeal and then is listened to
subsequent cases Joe tackiness seems to
come up but no it was not Jo tech PETA
but so you know they could have had an
expert to refute this very damning piece
of evidence but they did not in fact
they didn’t really have any forensics
experts which would prove to be a big
mistake this is also though and
so it’s kind of pre all of the
strong forensics experts that we know
now so they also found a bloody
fingerprint but it did not match Darlie
or anyone else in the home and so this
is gonna become important later on to
her defense how does the prosecution
explain that they don’t they just
conveniently ignore it it’s it’s not a
it’s not a value that’s not an
evidentiary value as we would say so
shortly after Darin and Darlie were
brought in again for questioning Darlie
was arrested for two counts of murder
but Darlie and Darin were shocked the
way they both described it in later
accounts they had no idea they were
suspects or Darlie was Darin was
initially as I understand considered
somewhat of a suspect but ruled out
pretty quickly because he was you know
safely upstairs with the baby so it was
really Darlie if they honed it on and it
was Darlie who was arrested for two
counts of murder and the problem also is
this this was about the media had
compared her to a very famous case that
had just happened about two years before
in Texas and
sure if you recall Susan Smith oh of
course
Susan Smith was the mom who had drowned
her two sons in the lake and you know
claimed that there was some not an
intruder but someone took her kids and
it was a stranger abduction and I think
Susan had confessed with in something of
nine days but so this is kind of still
fresh on the people’s mind you have
students Smith and now you’ve got Darlie
routier you’ve got women you know
killing their children left and right so
this is how this was sort of going down
so darlie’s arrested she was even I
think taken to there’s like a photograph
in a video of her she was taken to like
a psych ward initially because she was
probably going crazy right I don’t
remember I won’t say I know exactly why
but I think she was taken there and
unfortunately they put her in like this
long white gown and that’s the thing
they paraded her out in in front of like
the press she was in a long white gown
that looked like a pajama thing it was
it was weird and I thought it was
unfortunate I thought it was
embarrassing and I almost felt like it
was done to shame her mm-hmm and she was
crying and you know the press had a
scarf and she had anything to say in the
only thing she said was I did not kill
my children I’m innocent darlie’s trial
began on January which is not a
lot of time it was actually maybe about
six months after really quick way too
quick for a murder trial and in one of
the documentaries I watched on this and
I’ll reference our sources later but one
of them the attorney said like this was
too quick then and it is you know we
want speedy trial but in a case
especially when you’re on for murder you
need more time to prep the prosecution
probably thought it was a slam dunk
exactly I think the probably average
time to prep for a murder trial when you
have especially a big murder trial is
two and a half to three years you say
it’s about right Amy yeah but you also
have to keep in mind that a lot of times
people are detained pretrial so if
you’re innocent that’s a long time to
wait it is a long time to wait it’s
usually the defense so that requests
that much time I think you know
prosecution will also request time for
other reasons but the defense is
entitled to speedy but if they want to
get it right it’s also you have to
balance it anyway regardless Tyler’s
trial began on January but it
would be held in Kerrville and not in
Dallas change of venue yes so
this is obviously a huge case so they
were going for a change of venue
immediately how far away was that town
I mean because I would imagine that it
was a big case in most of the state it
was but so that’s why here’s the thing
that’s why that it they thought it would
go to Dallas because Dallas is the big
city so that would have been far enough
away and also big enough and Dallas has
a population of something like . or
. million and a lot of successful
families let her urban a lot of mix
right but it went to Kerrville which is
some more southern and it was very small
population of , so now we have a
small conservative jurisdiction this was
not the desired jurisdiction by the
defense they want to Dallas for many
obvious reasons and to be frank if it
had been Dallas we probably would have
been looking at somewhat of a different
outcome here so okay her trial commences
one of the most damning pieces of
evidence is is a video of Darlie at the
cemetery about a week after the murder
have you heard of this it’s all balloons
or something yes the silly string blue
oh yes video okay so what happened was
well the whole fan this is a week after
the murder the whole family was actually
there to celebrate what would have been
Devon’s th birthday and for a memorial
here’s where seconds of one person’s
life and decisions can change everything
Darlie was filmed at one point spraying
confetti on the graves and saying we
love you to the boys and saying happy
birthday and she was smiling in the
video this was before she was a suspect
she was already a suspect then but
before trial she was out on bail oh yeah
no no this was before trial okay yeah
this was before trial so the video would
really change the tides for Darlie
routier it was one moment in the whole
day however that was used against her so
what most people didn’t hear and what
the jury or jury didn’t see or hear and
they said later they wish they had was
there was a whole day Darlie and her
family were crying most of the day they
were over the graves you know they were
I mean it was a really upsetting day but
from one moment and it’s the way her
family it’s either her mother or sister
tells it she said let’s make this about
Devon and you know how much he would
love till
and how fun he was let’s let’s do one
sweet thing for Devin you know it’s
interesting because Darin routier always
says you know the only difference
between Darlie and me is that I wasn’t
holding the silly string I was holding
you know maybe he was holding the baby
so Darlie is caught in this you know
fifteen to twenty second video that
makes it look they played it at trial oh
they sure did yeah they played this at
trial and you know the jurors were quite
offended by the video as they said later
on in subsequent interviews and the lead
prosecutor Greg Davis said it was
clearly not the behavior of a grieving
mother you know that’s that’s what
jurors said as well like this is not a
grieving mother she’s smiling she’s
laughing
the prosecutor I believe Greg Davis
actually said something that was so
damning in the opening or closing she’s
literally dancing on their graves it was
you know it was not good let’s put it
that see how that speaks to her guilt or
innocence I really don’t I don’t think
it does either
but darlie’s lawyer Doug Mulder also had
somewhat of an ace in his pot pocket
have you ever heard of Doug Mulder he
was a pretty famed attorney in Texas as
well so he was a prosecutor first and
then the defense attorney which we know
a lot of prosecutors will go over to the
defense later but Doug Mulder was the
prosecutor of the Errol Morris case yep
you’ve seen thin blue line yeah
absolutely
so Doug Mulder was that prosecutor and
he handled some other very big cases and
his capacity as a defense attorney he
actually recently died something like
last year I heard an interview with his
son so it’s why I bring that up
so Doug Mulder was he had a good
reputation he was you know well known
and probably or maybe they say a little
cocky as well he thought like it was
obvious that there are a lot of kinks in
the case
so Doug Mulder had a surprise when he
interviewed detective Patterson about
the memorial service detective Patterson
he had been one of the people to be
surveilling Darlie gets on the stands
and when Doug Mulder asks him about this
memorial service and his filming and an
audio and well he was the one that
filmed the silly string he was part of a
team of detectives but I think he was
the lead right that night so um they
didn’t anticipate this but detective
Patterson when asked about it took the
Fifth Amendment do you know I mean we
know what taking the fifth means the
fifth means in
right but the idea here is that people
criminal defendants take the fifth when
they don’t want to answer when it’s
possible they could implicate themselves
in a crime yeah so why do we have a
detective on this case which is highly
unusual taking the fifth about his role
in a surveillance okay so what happened
was they got another detective on the
stand and you have another detective
take the fifth okay when they were
questioned about their surveillance yes
so what’s going on the reason police
surveilled the memorial by placing
recording equipment on the gravesite and
you’re not allowed to do that and
listening to the recordings so the
question is is this illegal yes this is
considered a real invasion of privacy so
they weren’t just surveilling them
watching them they put recording on the
kit on the on the actual grapes this is
considered an invasion of privacy also
you know as we said before they the jury
didn’t get to see or hear the video
where Darlie was crying over her son’s
graves which would prove to be pretty
detrimental as well Darlie routier
decided to testify at her trial she
wanted to testify and I’m not sure what
Doug Mulder I don’t recall what he said
just that you know he thought you’d come
across it as an impassioned mom now we
both know for various reasons it’s not
always a good idea to put someone on the
stand and in darlie’s case it did not
work out very well for her so she came
across they said as defensive and
argumentative and mostly she did not
make a great witness and she did not
look at the jury which is now a whole
thing you’re supposed to look at the
jury now like if you saw the Jodi arias
case she stares at the jewelry when you
look away they think it’s you know
damning you know it’s interesting
she was argumentative and defensive well
that’s of course what you’re gonna be
when you’re on trial for murder and
you’re claiming that you’re innocent
yeah are you gonna be you know but I
mean if she wasn’t like that they’d say
why wasn’t she more defensive she was
again damned if you do damned if you
don’t but they you know the dully
prosecuted her well and made her seem
like a belligerent witness and just
didn’t come across well at the end of
trial lead prosecutor Greg Davis in his
closing statement said the last thing
Darlie routier Skidz saw was their
mother stabbing them to down and Darlie
interjects and called him a liar during
his closing so she literally said liar
and everyone was like what I mean I have
to say this is probably what I would
have done as well if I’m sitting there
listening to someone say that about me I
would have screamed liar as well to me
that they said it was shocking and I
made her look bad I thought that that
made her look yeah innocent so what
happens when the jurors go to deliberate
they have you know they have some mixed
evidence here but do you know they
requested to see one piece of evidence
over video the video they requested to
see the video the gravesite video seven
times while deliberating and actually I
heard it referenced as times in
another one did the defense suggest an
alternate theory yes they did we’ll get
to that
no they suggested exactly what Darlie
said there was clearly an intruder we
have a fingerprint that doesn’t belong
to her we have you know what they really
tried to present to was how injured
Darlie was I think the most difficult
thing is who would want these children
dead that’s well that’s what’s difficult
for the be the motive here for anyone
all right so we’re gonna get to that in
a minute or two I’m not sure that I can
answer that fully for you but I could at
least present some possible alternative
theories so but also the I think the
unfortunate thing here though as well is
that the grave site video was the most
heavily and the juries I heard juror
members speak to it afterwards it
weighed on them the most okay so the
jurors deliberated and not surprisingly
I guess Darlie was found guilty on both
murders and sentenced to death on
February th
I think Doug Boulder was very surprised
he was he thought they had certainly
established reasonable doubt I think a
lot of people were surprised Greg Davis
in the prosecution had they remained
steadfast they believed Charlie was
responsible for this crime and they
asserted at trial that those wounds that
Darlie had were superficial they said
this is a woman and it looks superficial
if you look at those pictures I don’t
think they look superficial at all but
they said this is a woman who clearly
did this to herself
she could have wanted to kill herself if
you I mean I guess you could argue that
I mean yes I’m we’re talking about a
murder-suicide very rare I don’t see
that as being supported here also we’ve
deaf
we seen people fake injuries but this
was not a superficial injury it was it
was incorrect to call the gash on her
throat superficial given how close she
came to the carotid artery I also think
if you want to inflict superficial
wounds I’ve seen it done before people
usually go for a shot even a gunshot
Shore or a knife but to the arms to the
legs to a part of the abdomen where
you’re not here yeah we’re talking again
about slashing
her own throat across the throat and
into the that’s why I said if she did it
she wanted to kill herself I think I
don’t think you could make the argument
that she did it to make a superficial
wound no I don’t think you could make
that argument either again prosecution
said this was just her covering it up
and look you know they said look she
left and the kids died but also we could
say well because she struggled she was
an adult the kids are easy obviously the
kids are easier prey they’re not for
fighting back they’re small they’re
small children so Darlene remembers
struggling so Darlie was convicted what
would have been some I just want to talk
about a couple of things some critical
evidence for the defense even though it
didn’t win them the case and it didn’t
acquit Darlie routier it would come up
it will come up later and I think it’s
important that we cover this one of the
critical pieces of evidence was emails
athletic sock was found in the alley
behind her house but a couple of doors
down I don’t remember how many yards it
was maybe something like yards away
so it was it had a small blood stain on
it from both boys and it was found near
a drain behind the house I’m assuming
they checked the drain for other
evidence they did but it it clear if
Darlie is the one who did this does this
mean that somewhere in the middle of
this she took a sock ran outside in her
t-shirt she was still in her t-shirt and
bloodied and threw a sock in the alley
to give the impression that there was
some type on the other hand why would an
intruder take a kid’s sock with him it
might have been something that was on
him that he got I didn’t say that it was
actually oh I’m sorry you said it was a
male yeah so imagine this and intruder
realizes he’s got blood on him running
and tries to throw the sock in the drain
while running yeah I mean that one looks
more like to me that supports much
stronger support
evidence for an intruder then Darlie
Darlie routier running down the block
you know after in the middle of this
crime so how would the sock get there
again I think that would support that
was brought up at trial but it was yeah
that’s what the prosecution said that
Darlie placed the sock there to make it
appear as if an intruder did this to her
sons but it doesn’t seem likely that
Darlie would have been able to do that
because then there’d be her blood on the
doorknobs and how would she get it how
right it doesn’t make sense no it just
doesn’t make sense at all there was also
a bloody fingerprint as I mentioned
before found at the scene which did not
match Darlie or anyone else in the home
so what was the explanation for this it
wasn’t really addressed I think the
defense used it to say obviously there
was an intruder ignored by the
prosecution mostly on appeal did they
try to run their fingerprint ah here we
go so Amy’s jumping ahead okay so okay
Charley is convicted so let’s talk now
about the aftermath and he appeals and
what’s going on today
also I wanna mention she’s been on death
row for over years that’s correct
she’s been on death row for I mean
people are on death row for a long time
but that’s on the high end it’s usually
around a decade it may be a decade and a
half it’s on the very high end and we’ll
talk about what we think about this and
how and how and why she’s right right
exactly so Charlie’s husband Aaron has
always supported her innocence and I
mean he never wavered he was he’s been
vocal he was destroyed he was
devastating and the baby who was a baby
now an adult is yes so let’s talk about
I’ll get that as well stop stealing my
thunder anyway but no I understand so
Darren was extremely supportive in the
beginning he’s still supportive and if
you watch interviews he’s done some
recently he has said I absolute there is
not one chance on earth that Darlie did
this but they did divorce eventually in
and Darren remarried I don’t know
anything about his second marriage he’s
I mean they stayed together they stayed
married for almost years it still
supports her I understand at some point
he still does gone probably they both
discussed it and without discussing it
in detail they both said it was a mutual
decision obviously based on the time and
the distance and I’m sure that she
wanted him to move on with his life at
some point so Darren remarried his
youngest son Drake visits Darlie and has
a relationship with her also supportive
of her unfortunately their relationship
because it’s death row is through a
glass window which is a little sad if
she’s innocent that sad it it’s probably
sad for him regardless now for him
absolutely regardless Drake was I read
something that Drake was diagnosed with
leukemia a while back but his prognosis
was good all right it was good and I
believe he is okay now so what happened
so she does a relationship with Drake
and she does have an amicable
relationship with Darrin who who she
divorced in so what happened with
her case the state affirmed her
conviction on direct appeal but the
appellate court granted darlie’s team
the ability to run DNA tests in
further testing again so they ordered
new testing in and another round
just last year in and the request
for these DNA tests to be one run were
supported by both the prosecution and
the defense that’s nice I think it’s a
different prosecutor but as of
Darlie Waits
as her DNA analyses her run and I so I’m
assuming from the earlier analyses they
got nothing we’re just hoping something
may have come out of last year so that’s
interesting because I was thinking kept
looking for the same thing like what
about I mean you know obviously I
don’t know if Amy knows this but other
people don’t know
DNA testing even when it’s ordered
sometimes can take up to years to
actually do well this as a backlog
there’s a backlog but there’s also
opposition by the state and that wasn’t
the case here so I don’t believe that
they were able to ascertain much
information from the but they’ve
ordered new DNA testing and the new DNA
testing that they’re going to run is
going to focus on blood fingerprints and
there was something else the new DNA
testing is gonna focus on blood
fingerprints and other items you know
obviously containing DNA so it’s I mean
that’s promised and that’s why she
hasn’t been executed because she keeps
getting the stays of execution through
the appeals so she keeps getting stays
yeah and the appellate court keeps
awarding her interesting they keep
expanding the realm of testing and again
it’s supported by the DA and the
prosecution but this is years and Amy
that’s years after the first round so
I was going to
say can you explain why it would you
know be that long but the the state
usually stalls and they might have
stalled on the first round I think they
did on DNA testing the state will stall
there will be several rounds of motions
back and forth there will be other
procedures and then there’s you know the
DNA backlog who’s going to do it who’s
going to take which independent lab is
gonna do it which tests are going to be
run for several reasons it takes years
and I mean Texas definitely as one of
the states that has the largest backlog

so that’s absolutely this was going on
in a different state it might not take
so long absolutely true on another
positive note for Darlie the Innocence
Project has joined forces with her team
and it seems there’s definite excitement
in the air you know over this I mean
we’re talking about the original
Innocence Project barry scheck new york
and you know that if they’re backing her
that this is you know she’s got some
real steam now don’t you also know that
once the Innocence Project backs people
I mean it’s usually good you know right
I mean you could talk about that don’t
they have strong reason to believe in
the innocence as well yeah I don’t think
they take on cases unless they have a
strong belief in one’s innocence but
that doesn’t mean of course that every
case they take on cops out in that favor
absolutely not I guess they do think
though there’s gonna be a lot of
information to be gained from the DNA
testing yeah regardless years later
Darlie routier remains on death row as
we said before along with six other
women in Texas so that’s where her case
is at possible alternate theories and
these aren’t really alternate theories
but other information that might help a
neighbor of Darlie routier and Darren
Rudi heirs reported a suspicious black
car in the neighborhood a week before
the murder and the neighbor claims that
she saw the person watching the Rudy
Aires home she says she recognized it
because there were a tight-knit
community and she didn’t know this and
then that same neighbor reported seeing
that same car there the day of the
murder and the police ignored this
report because they had their suspects
she said I saw this car a week there I
looked like basically when she said
watching the home almost like casing it
and then saw the same car there the day
of the murder it’s just hard to wrap
your head around with the motive with
because there was no sexual assault no
there was nothing taken
and no I must I’m assuming the defense
tried to see if they had any enemies if
there were any business issues going on
they did they looked into Darren’s
business and there were some mentions of
some possible problems with Darren’s
business and some not I don’t want to
say enemies you’ve got some animosity
that he might have had they also
suggested that Darren was going to
commit fraud at one point and apparently
because they’re one of the things I
should say is that while they were
living the good life they were living
way beyond their means and the
prosecution suggested that they were
living too far behind beyond their means
and Darren was gonna commit some fraud
and Darren actually I believe signed up
petition signed something for the court
saying that he did commit a fraud I’m
not sure that it was true though I think
he did it just to help Darlie but one of
the motives the prosecution said was
that Darlie was it was everything was
getting to be too expensive and so she
killed the kids for the life insurance
the kids had $, life insurance
policies that makes no sense also you
said before something about her plastic
surgery Womack all right I’m glad you
brought that up
so the prosecution could not find a
motive because to be honest people
thought Charlie was great mom yeah and
she loved being a mom and all the
evidence if you look at the videos and
everything I’m sure they were trying
hard to find some dirt oh they were
trying trying hard so what they said was
Darlie had liked to be the center of
attention and she had you know done her
hair and gotten plastic surgery honey
she’s gotten breast enhancement and you
know their lifestyle had become lavish
and the kids were cutting into her
expensive lifestyle and so and also
cutting into her so why wouldn’t she
kill the baby then why kill the old and
right and so one of the other the
counter points is okay so you killed the
two kids but not you’re not your husband
who by the way would be the golden goose
with the insurance and you know so
that is no sense it makes us however the
jury they didn’t like it they didn’t
like it so I heard a juror I saw an
interview with a juror afterwards and I
was shocked to hear her talk about how
she said something like I didn’t like
that she had breast surgery I would
never do that who would do that so they
were clearly judging her for her
appearance and the fact that she had
fake breasts that came into play
and that mean they essentially put that
forth as a motive which was very weak so
I agree in me right we don’t know it was
it a possible burglary burglary gone
wrong was it supposed to be a possible
attack let’s say on maybe even Daren or
Darlie and all sudden someone walks in
and holy shit darlie’s and there were
two children and could have somebody
wakes up they freaked out they panic and
they just start stabbing got him through
here gotta get out of here before the
husband wakes yeah you know the motive
we may not know but certainly the motive
that was given by the prosecution that
Darlie was a selfish self-centered
materialistic woman who didn’t want to
compete with her children’s attention
was we and did the prosecution have
witnesses that were assassinating her
character or not really no it was really
hard to find people to talk bad about
her I don’t recall that being a center
of it you know I’ve read one or two
things that said you know Darlie was
actually more selfish than you realize
or Darlie was more spoiled or you know
but nothing nothing at all pointing to
her being a bad mom and I’ve seen all
the videos and how sweet she was with
their kids and I don’t believe it to be
honest so at this point in the show I
know that we don’t have we don’t have
all of the information but I’m going to
say for me the reason I covered this
case is because I think this is such a
clear case of wrongful conviction I
think the evidence used was used
improperly I think the defense dropped
the ball they didn’t defend her and I
think there’s a reason why every podcast
and a lot of documented a lot of people
are coming to her aid the Innocence
Project I hope that other podcasters
will cover this and you know again this
is a death row case so a lot of the
cases we cover our life but now we’re
talking about death any opinions on the
end where we’re at here Amy from you I
think at the very least a jury should
have never found her guilty how did they
meet the burden of proof in this case I
mean we see that all the time though so
you know it sounds like the jury judged
her pretty quickly it was like we said
character assassination and do you hear
evidence so I I wish I might assume at
this point you can’t decide for yet
whether it’s a wrongful conviction I
know you probably look it I think it
mean I think it would lean more towards
that but at the very least no way is
and the burden of proof is definitely
not met yeah I don’t think so either and
I think had that video not coming to
play we would be talking if that it’s
it’s interesting I was talking about
with one or two small things that could
change if that video didn’t come into
play and or if she was tried in Dallas
or shouldn’t have breast implants even
who knows right who knows like what
really I think we were talking gonna be
talking about a very different outcome
unfortunately right now Darlie is still
on death row but I am really looking
forward to seeing what the Innocence
Project will do and we really look
forward to the results of the updated
DNA tests that is it for today thank you
so much everyone for listening and we’ll
see you next time on women & crime

[Music]

women and crime is written and hosted by
Meghan Sacks and Amy Schlosberg our
producer and editor is James Varga our
music is composed by Dessert Media

sources for today’s episode came from CNN
injustice watch Dallas Morning News
and the ABC documentary last defense