Episode Transcript
The below text transcription was is intended for audience reference and search purposes. Because it is generated automatically by computer, please forgive mis-translations, spelling and the lack of really any structured grammar.
On august th seven
year-old adriana Hutto
drowned in her pool in what seemed like
a clear accidental drowning not in
common in florida but a surprise witness
would quickly come forward and accuse
Adriana’s mother of her murder so is
this a case of an accident or was this a
murder
this is episode 13 The Amanda Lewis
story
[Music]
heymy it’s really good to see you today
even if it’s just on zoom I prefer to
see you in person but I’ll settle for
this to keep everyone healthy that’s
correct we’re doing our part to stay
safe and keep everyone else safe so Amy
and I are doing this via zoom for the
time and I miss you Megan I miss you too
okay
all right so we have a couple of
exciting things today I’m really excited
to announce that we have a new patron oh
we do and who might that be well let’s
give a big THANK YOU to Tiffany Kay from
Louisiana thank you so much for your
support thanks Tiffany and we hope you
enjoyed this episode so today’s episode
is one that was actually suggested to me
by one of our listeners so we have a
listener who has been with us from
direct appeal since the beginning of
direct appeal and who is also listening
to women and crime and she’s written in
with a couple of helpful emails and
insightful tips and she suggested the
Amanda Lewis case which I had heard of
but again didn’t know very much about
and then I started looking a lot of my
suggestions come from my mother so I
started looking into this case and I
became really interested so I want to
thank Michelle and we hope you enjoyed
today’s episode and hope everyone else
does
so okay amanda was a year old single
mother who was a healthcare assistant at
a nursing home at the time and she was
working during the evenings and she was
living with her two children in the
small town of estou Florida which is
bordered to the north by Alabama but I
looked at estou and the population is
about people total is that even
possible
I didn’t know it was but yes this is the
one we talk small town this is small
town America Amanda was living with her
two children Adrianna aged seven and AJ
age six at the time Adrianna had ADHD
and so at times she could be rang
bumptious as described by Amanda and
quick-tempered even though Amanda said
she was a good child
that being said we’ll talk a little bit
more about Amanda’s relationship with
Adrianna because it was
a little bit more complicated for
example amanda was in the National Guard
earlier around the time Adriana was born
and she was called up so when Adriana
was a small child she was separated from
her mother for quite some time and I
think it was something you know several
months close to a year where Adriana
lived with Amanda’s family and so Amanda
said that when she returned she was very
slow to bond with Adriana she said it
was a difficult bond and Adriana was a
difficult child how old was she when her
mom went away she like a toddler she was
a talker yes and Amanda at the time
would have been about so she was
young as well she was a young mother too
so Amanda describes AJ as being the much
easier child and while she described him
as being easygoing and she said that she
was harder to bond with Adriana she also
said that she loved her children and she
thought they had a pretty good life she
said she was happy and she thought
overall they were happy if you look at
the photos and there’s a lot of photos
on this case we’re going to talk about
them as we go through if you look at the
photos of the outside of the house you
can see that it looks like a modest home
nothing fancy but certainly a decent
home the inside however would tell a
very different story as far as
investigators were concerned and we’re
gonna come back to that because that’s
going to play an integral role in the
evidence against or the case against
Amanda Amanda had also bought a small
above-ground pool for the kids and
that’s gonna be really important to this
story so it wasn’t a full above-ground
pool it was one of those inflatable ones
and it was about four feet tall actually
it was four feet tall
she had a ladder for the pool I want to
mention but she had the ladder locked in
the shed so if you look at the photos
you’ll see she had a big yard there’s a
pool and about you know it looks like
maybe feet from the pool is the
shed which contained the ladder and some
other floatable toys for the pool on
August th Amanda Lewis says that
her kids were playing outside before she
was going to take them for
back-to-school shopping
Amanda had gotten off the night shift
she came home she said the plan was that
she was gonna take them shopping they
wanted to go in the pool and she said
no you’re not doing the pool right now I
have things to do in the house and
basically she describes showering and
doing some couple other things to get
ready as you would probably after a long
shift and the kids asked okay well can
we play outside and so Amanda said of
course and so her kids are playing
outside she does you know a couple of
things to get ready and her son AJ came
in and said told her mom that Adriana
was in the pool but she didn’t really
think that according to Amanda she said
she didn’t really think Adriana was in
the pool
she said she thought he meant like
Adriana’s playing near the pool and so
she was like just just go get her and
tell her to come inside we’re gonna go
remind me their ages again Adriana’s
seven and a G at the time is five or six
okay it just helps that put it in
context right right cuz I read a couple
different stories in one he was five and
when he was six they were very close in
age so five to six my kids are almost
the same exact age so that helps try to
think about how one would say something
or not but okay and so she says just go
get Adriana and come inside and she said
she didn’t realize it till he was like
no Adriana’s in the pool and then she
ran outside and she saw her daughter
basically floating in the pool and she
says that she ran outside she grabbed
Adriana she calls Rihanna was
purplish and you can listen she did
start to administer CPR she was
panicking or you know if you think she
wasn’t panicking it’s a faked panic but
I will say the one call which we do
not use to judge people’s guilt sounds
to me very much like a panicked mother
she was yelling my daughters in the pool
she’s purple I don’t think she’s
breathing help me please come what do i
do what do I do
so if you want to listen to the call and
and see what you think about it I would
encourage you all to do that first
responders showed up and administered
CPR because Adriana was alive she still
had a pulse and she was transported to
the hospital they worked on her for
quite a while they said she had a pulse
for a while but they couldn’t sustain
the pulse so after you know an hour to
working on her in the hospital
unfortunately Adriana died so what
happens investigators first believe that
Adriana that this was an accidental
drowning so let me also describe the
pool area had a little red wagon next to
it it was pushed up right against the
pool
so what investigators really first
believed was that Adriana probably
stepped onto the wagon and went into the
pool headfirst maybe hitting her head
and drowning it seems like a pretty
likely conclusion that hey this is an
accident and like I said before this is
a common way that kids in Florida
actually pass away do you know how to
swim do you know so here’s and that’s a
good question Amy so many different
accounts here some people say that
Adriana was afraid of the water some
people say that she loved to swim and
that she just didn’t like to go under
the water which may be I don’t know I
don’t have small children but I think
that’s a thing right that some kids
don’t like to go under the water and
then there’s pictures that they’ve used
they showed pictures of Adriana like on
the beach playing near the water so it
depends on who you ask
and I believe Amanda said that Adriana
liked the water enough so was she afraid
of the water
it depends on who you ask while amanda
is there and while all of this is
happening she’s got AJ Amanda’s mother
and her stepfather Chuck burns with whom
amanda was not very close came and took
AJ from the scene while Amanda stayed
with the sheriff’s mr. burns
called the sheriff’s office about an
hour after he got AJ and said AJ had
something to tell them AJ was
interviewed just a few hours after
Adriana died and what he told the
sheriff’s was that basically mama threw
Adriana in the pool and dumped her and
held her facedown Wow yeah so he would
repeat this a couple of times and he
would specifically say just so you know
he would specifically say dunking and I
would definitely encourage listeners to
go ahead and watch you can see the
footage of AJ’s interview with the
police officers and and you know they
would ask him what was he doing and what
was what was Adriana doing and he said
that Adriana screamed AJ called the
police which we can talk about that a
little bit so why why would this have
happened AJ said that Adriana had gotten
in trouble that morning because she got
into the Windex and police confirmed
fingerprints on the bottle of Windex but
amanda says that that yeah that happened
I was mad at Adriana she did get into
index but
was a week earlier and I did not kill my
daughter because she got into the Windex
you know AJ described other factors of
that day so the police said that you
know he was reliable because he
described some men I guess working on
the power lines outside of their house
and the police confirmed that that
happened that day and so the police gave
a couple of reasons or things that
happen as reasons why they determined
that AJ was reliable but AJ story
changed several times during the
interview sometimes even the number of
times that Amanda dunked Adriana or when
she did it or what happened before it
AJ’s point of view also he describes
being at one point outside of the house
so he could see it then at another point
he says he was inside the house they
also he also said that he was playing
near a tree from which the view would be
extremely obstructed so when he showed
you know investigators where that tree
was they realized that he couldn’t see
it or that he wasn’t even tall enough to
see this do you have any learning
disabilities like his sister so I didn’t
read specifically but learning
disability but I did see like his is
emotional like his maturity they said
even though he was six was more on par
with a four-year-old cuz I was gonna I
was gonna say I could see a four year
old four year old would be more likely
to make up a story I have children that
are five and six I don’t even think my
five-year-old would make up a story like
that so that’s it’s it’s so what you
mean as you think it’s more likely it
seems truthful because you don’t think
you’re I don’t so you can’t trust
children’s all right we can’t trust
eyewitnesses in general but particularly
children but I’m comparing it to my own
children and I can’t imagine I think my
children would understand the
seriousness of making that allegation a
four-year-old would not understand that
if I say this mommy goes away and this
is a big deal a five-year-old the
six-year-old I think would be able to
connect that if I make up this lied this
is bad okay well maybe this is a good
point for us to enter this discussion
and what I would ask you is one thing
first of all Amy what in terms of
eyewitness identifications are they
problematic how problematic are they so
this is a bit different because we’re
talking about an eyewitness who’s
talking about seeing an event
saying that’s the person in the lineup
right okay when we talk about eyewitness
errors we know that over % of wrongful
convictions contain an eyewitness error
but again it’s usually in the context of
picking the wrong person out of a lineup
okay got it so this is a little
different because there was you know he
knew the quote-unquote perpetrator right
but with children we do know number one
that they the suggestibility is very
high so let me ask you you said the
stepfather had a strained relationship
with Amanda
Oh Amy sorry she’s already picking up on
where I’m going with it this way if you
ask a child a leading question that is
very damaging it could have been
something that you know the stepfather
could have said are you sure it wasn’t
mommy that held that dunked her in the
water oh the word don’t
oh yeah mommy did it that makes sense
right right and then all of a sudden his
memory is getting like rewritten right
there’s all these different things we
know can happen with memory especially
in younger children so Amanda
interestingly after this also passed a
lie-detector test and she passed it with
flying colors but authorities pressed
forward with their investigation now we
know lie-detector tests are considered
unreliable but you can bet anything that
if Amanda had failed that lie-detector
test it would be an entirely different
story
as opposed to passing when they passed
there’s usually this thing that you know
that they’ll say well anyone could pass
a lies not of evidentiary value
yes so okay so Amanda passed a
lie-detector test but authorities
pressed forward with their investigation
authorities also found out that when
amanda was a teenager she had a month
old baby boy named Alex who died and so
they were looking at this as a very big
red flag and this is a mother who has
two small children that died now it was
pretty clear from the evidence and from
you know the autopsy and examination of
her baby that he died from a seizure
disorder which also if you think about
it might have something to do with
Adrianna so we don’t know what if it’s
possible that she had any disorders as
well but it’s it certainly raises the
possibility but it raised the big red
flag for them I mean they they looked at
it as indicative like this is a woman
who has a pattern of two toes I mean
that is some crazy bad luck right there
so it absolutely is
so at this point they have really honed
it Amanda Lewis is to them investigators
think that they have evidence you know
and I’m gonna talk more about what they
presented at trial but they are pressing
forward they’ve charged her she is going
to trial
so what happens before the trial as
which happens a lot before trials is
that the prosecutor offered Amanda Lewis
a plea deal to manslaughter with a
-year sentence but Amanda refused and
went to trial and told her attorney I
didn’t do it I am NOT pleading guilty to
killing my daughter and I’m going ahead
good for her if she’s innocent good for
her exactly and you know innocent people
do tend to turn those plea deals down
because they think I’ve got nothing to
hide I want my day in court and I’m
gonna prove this
[Music]
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first box at daily harvest calm so they
go to trial in February and seven
year old AJ was the star witness at
Amanda’s trial and I have to tell you
you have to go ahead online and look at
this for everyone it is heart breaking
this moment whether it not you think
she’s guilty or not they bring AJ in and
he was just the most adorable child just
so you know and they have him sitting in
the box and he’s you know looking
nervous he’s living with Amanda’s
parents at this point no I’ll get to
that but he actually was removed from
the family so AJ comes in and he didn’t
recognize his mother at first he hadn’t
seen her in about six months and he was
asked to like is your mom in the
courtroom there were a lot of people in
the courtroom he’s a small child he was
nervous I think he just didn’t know that
his mom was there and so he said no my
mom’s not here and they said where’s
your mom and he said she’s in jail and
then I think it was the prosecutor who
actually like pointed out Amanda and
said is that your mom and so he looked
over and when he realized it was his mom
and he
said yes he started to cry and she
started to cry and it was just I mean it
really was probably the most emotional
point he really cried he was having a
hard time and he wanted me guilty I
think there was a lot of things going on
here the poor kid I felt really bad for
him so AJ gave the account that Amanda
had held Adriana’s head underwater
similar to what he said in the first
interview but the defense was able to
cross-examine him and show that AJ’s
account of what happened changed several
times so we have about thirteen
different stories from AJ just to put it
out there
AJ’s account of what happened actually
changes several times and the defense
said she had a public defender and he
was on documentary that I watched said
you know we felt I felt pretty good
about it because I thought you know we
showed like he’s a child he’s not
reliable and he said this but then he
changed it at one point he even said
like we went to the park and then mommy
dunked her after the park but they’ve
never gone to the park that day you know
he had different accounts and so the
defense felt pretty good about that but
regardless they had AJ as the star
witness who else came to trial well
Amanda actually testified as well but
from everything I saw her testimony was
pretty insignificant she told the same
story that she’s told a man has never
changed her story by the way she says
exactly what happened over and over
again and resolute I did not murder my
child but who else testified well the
police and other responders would
testify about Amanda’s house so they
described a house that was filthy
they said the kid’s room were urine
soaked and lacking toys and other kid
materials and this was sort of an odd
thing there’s two things about this
first of all this was odd because Amanda
said the toys were in the shed because
the kids were being punished for not
putting them away so she took them and
she put them in the shed when you look
at the photos of the shed you’re going
to see there’s no toys in there but
there’s also no toys in the house so
this is an interesting point I want to
catch this her in a lie as well it might
it might I read a lot it’s interesting
because I read a lot of blogs around
this and a lot of like what people’s
opinions where and a lot of moms were
like you know what I went through my
kids toys at one time because I was so
mad they weren’t taking care of it and
other people said well you saw that they
actually had a lot of pool toys
maybe they just didn’t have many toys
inside the house maybe they were outside
play kids I don’t know which way you
look at this can’t judge a mother based
on that I don’t think well we shouldn’t
be judging guilt certainly based on that
about guilt about a crime but the second
problem I would say is the photo of the
children’s room so it looks pretty bad
to me it’s you know their sheets are all
off the bed she says the reason that the
room smelled like urine is because they
were bed-wetters she said Adrianna in
particular was a bed wetter and she was
always taking the sheets off always
cleaning them so that’s why you have
bare mattresses it looks you know like
the walls that paints kind of coming off
the walls paint chipped the room looks
extremely dirty and I mean dirty not
just messy like I don’t know there’s
stuff all over the floor it looks it
doesn’t look like a room where you would
want your child to sleep so is this
trying to build a case as to why she’s
an unfit mother but how does make being
an unfit mother having your kid live in
squalor how does that translate to
killing your child yeah well I think
that they they’re trying to make this
leap and I also think we see this happen
a lot especially like when we look at
this to the women in crime the gender
lens right is being a bad mom per se and
even our attorney at one point said I
don’t know if she was the best mom but
does that make her a murderer yeah
they’re trying to make a connection to a
bit of a leap for me it was also for
them the investigators say they became
convinced that Amanda just didn’t love
her children or sport they actually
thought she loved AJ but they said they
became convinced because of the way that
she didn’t care for her children that
she just wasn’t a good mother and didn’t
love Adriana I also read by the way
online I was looking at what other
mothers and other people had to say and
a lot of people wrote online like yeah
my house looks like that on a regular
Saturday or my kids rooms you know they
don’t look so great and whatnot look for
yourselves make your own judgment I
personally thought that it did not look
like a healthy environment for children
however I would never use that to indict
her of murder to say that suggested her
that she’s a murderer Amanda’s mother
also testified for the defense nope
Amanda’s mother Brenda testified for the
prosecution and this is she has a
strained relationship with her mom they
had a relationship and it seems that
from the mother’s testimony there was
some strain in it but I don’t know much
about it to be frank
but at trial Brenda said that Amanda
demonstrated a very short temper with
Adriana but not with AJ and so this
didn’t look good you know they’re
they’re putting up a couple of witnesses
who were saying this it’s her own mother
saying she wasn’t a great mother to
Adriana yes to AJ all right a couple
more things that happen at trial they
had a doctor from the hospital who
described an emotionless Amanda upon
finding out that Adriana was dead the
doctor says that Amanda didn’t show any
emotion and that she asked where the
vending machines were could be shocked
we cannot judge Peeples effect we talk
about this all the time some people
laugh when they should be crying some
people cry when they should be laughing
some people go into shock some people
cry hysterically always and even her own
attorney was interesting because he said
that he had met with her and she seemed
very emotionless as well he said that I
went to walk away she’s walking down the
hallway he’s like can I hear her crying
down the hallway he’s like so I I am eat
at first I thought oh she is a little
cold he goes but then I realized she
just doesn’t like to cry in front of
people she cries in private but we’re
judging guilt because of that so yeah I
agree the effect is is problematic who
else testified well this is a problem
colleagues of Amanda testified that
Amanda was so annoyed with Adriana one
day that she came into work and said I
could just kill her now hold on
apparently Adriana had gotten a sharpie
and written on Amanda’s car and Amanda
was really really angry as I’m gonna say
most moms would be and comes in and says
I’m just I could just kill my dive said
that about both of my children
what mother how a minute I mean come on
this is I think this is a common thing
but at trial it was made to be something
so much worse than it actually was and I
watched some of the testimony and one of
the colleagues like I just told her you
can’t say that about your kids that’s
just that’s just horrible and she was
just so mad well you know she just wrote
on our car with a sharpie every parent’s
that right every parent says that I’m
hoping that she had someone on the
defense for her it sounds like everyone
she knows is turning against her it
wasn’t good actually for her did she
have anyone on her side character
witnesses people that could say she was
a loving mom I mean some people did say
that she was a decent mom or a good mom
doesn’t sound
like that was that wasn’t what you know
what was taken away from the jury though
no because most of it is is not
favorable to her so there was also the
testimony of Lisa Ruffman an assistant
of the medical examiner described
bruises on the forehead and sheet
Adriana’s forehead and cheek that lined
up with a hand over the girl’s face
which is very damning but let me just
point this out before you go ahead and
make a judgement the Medical Examiner
dr. Charles Siebert he had been fired
for a number of botched autopsies and he
had left to the state and did not come
back to testify the woman who testified
was his assistant and she didn’t do the
autopsy not only did she not do the
autopsy she was his as I believe like
office assistant I don’t believe she had
any medical training whatsoever but they
allowed her to testify about the bruises
on Adriana’s face I hope the defense did
a harsh cross on that they did and the
different and the defense definitely did
cross the defense at all honesty they
did seem to do a good job she of the
house like defend her she did okay and
but he seemed to do a great job on
casting reasonable doubt um you know
showing that these bruises could have
been yes could they have been from you
know a face yes but they also he was
able to show that they also could have
been from Adriana plunging into the pool
and hitting her head or responders
grabbing I was just gonna say or her
mother grabbing her like anyone touching
her face anyone applying pressure door
there were a number of people all over
the scene they were not able there’s no
definitive science which you can say you
know that’s a fingerprint on someone’s
face and you know when you’re trying to
do
life-saving efforts you’re rough with
that body because you’re doing
everything you can and she was little
and they were adult so it’s very
possible that she easily bruised when
they were trying to perform CPR or
whatever else they were doing it’s very
possible so you know I thought that was
like a jury member if someone on the
jury could I could definitely see them
taking that and being like case closed
I think so too I think that was probably
very damning you know at first when I
watched it I thought she was the I
thought she was the medical examiner and
then I watched another documentary and
I’ll cite our sources and a little bit
and I realized my she wasn’t the
medicals I’m she was the assistant
interpreting what he wrote and what he
found
even before he took the stand though I
believe he was also asked about like
different interpretations like I think
he had said one point it looked like
maybe she hit concrete and they said
well wait the pool wasn’t on concrete he
said well I don’t know how to explain
that then you know there was some
confusion over how to explain these
bruises and I think this is open to
interpretation
so nothing definitive I think that
probably the defense felt pretty good I
know that afterwards that you know they
did they went to closing arguments and
the jury deliberated for two hours oh
wow
a murder case and found her guilty of
first-degree murder and sentenced her to
life in prison
first-degree first-degree murder
premeditated they found as the state
said that Amanda and this was the
implication the state had said that
Amanda was so annoyed with Adriana that
she actually planned to teach her a
lesson by dunking her head in the pool
and it just went too far which still
doesn’t even stretch the great end
ya know so she but she was found guilty
of first degree in sentenced to life in
prison
Wow she’s in a Florida prison now she
still maintains her innocence and so
what happened well Amanda’s family has
since stuck by her I don’t know about
her siblings but her mother has come to
her aid and what her mother has
basically said I’ve since divorced
Amanda stepfather Chuck burns and
Amanda’s family including her mother
believes that Chuck Burns suggested the
information to AJ in the first hour
because Chuck Burns was alone with AJ
for the first hour so something had
happened where I said Amanda’s mother
and stepfather came something happened
with Amanda’s mom she was describing
like maybe she couldn’t get her car to
start or she was she wasn’t on scene for
an hour so they had one solid hour alone
and then it was Chuck burns who said
that AJ had something to say in an
interview mr. burns describes Amanda as
a bad mother hen says I don’t think she
was a good mother her kids were always
hungry they weren’t well-behaved but he
said I did not tell AJ what to say
rather AJ told me what happened this is
the point of dispute now and I think
this is what comes in what you were
talking about though whether or not this
is you know is she is this
suggestibility issue has the child ever
recanted no okay so he’s changed his
story but he’s never actually said mommy
didn’t do it correct he changed his
story and but he never said my mom
didn’t do it but he did change at
different times and at that point
actually I should say after trial AJ was
adopted by another family and has been
residing with another family is that I
don’t know it does beg the question of
you know what happened in her family
they had a lot of tension I’m not sure
if for kid yeah I have to say so as well
you know I read something that has
adopted family said he’s done quite well
since and he’s never had any contact
with him I was gonna say I’m assuming
court-ordered they’re not allowed to no
contact whatsoever with Amanda ever
since he’d testified at trial that was
the last so she lost three children and
she says that she lost three children
she filed an appeal in but her
appeal has been rejected at such do you
know what she appealed on because I’m
wondering if what can be done in this
type of case there’s no DNA there’s you
know other than the little boy recanting
what could really change for her so I
think I mean I think the appealable
issue was the testimony of AJ maybe the
testimony of the medical examiner yeah I
think I mean I haven’t I’m sorry did the
defense call an expert that could speak
to the suggestibility of children no I
should say this during trial they had
someone who did critique the interview
of AJ as well suggesting that AJ’s
interview was not done properly at all
it wasn’t the police department there
fully admitted that people who
interviewed AJ that they did not have
any experience interviewing children who
was in the room during the interview I’m
assuming no adults that’s so illegal
so on his first actually that’s
naturally the stepfather wasn’t the
first one yes so they said that AJ was
you know that they said the interview
wasn’t done right there was definitely a
critique later on and in her appeal
there was a critique of how AJ was
questioned and how reliable AJ’s
testimony was he was young I don’t think
you could put if there’s no
corroborating evidence I do not
understand how you can sentence this
woman to life in prison
oh I have I have substantial problems
with this case so now
come to that point like where we talk
about what what do we think after
watching the documentaries I’ve read
every article I could find on this case
just so you know I could tell you I
would definitely leave I mean I would
have absolutely acquitted her there’s
there’s so much reasonable doubt all
over this
I don’t think a six-year-old is reliable
I don’t know what happened in the hour
between when or even an hour between
when they called but then a couple hours
between what happened then you know if
there was some suggestion I have no idea
you don’t have a credible medical
examiner here I think this case reeks a
reasonable doubt and I actually believe
that this is probably if I had a lien if
I had a guess I’m going I would go with
a wrongful conviction on Amanda Lewis I
could imagine being on the jury though
and seeing a seven-year-old boy crying
that hat you have to feel like why would
this kid lie why would he just lost his
sister like I don’t think people
understand the psychology of children
and I think people feel that they have
to give this kid the benefit of the
doubt why would he lie yes right but
absolutely I mean if they had a quality
expert up there who could talk about
interviewing children and eyewitness
stuff with children I mean I think if
she didn’t have a public defender and
maybe could have afforded a better
lawyer they would have gotten a top
expert in the field that would pretty
much say this is well of course they
didn’t have money for experts in the way
that people are going to I think the
public defender that she had thought
look we showed that AJ was inconsistent
over you know changing his story
times every time I asked him he would
ask him a question oh wait so how many
times is this and he would change it I
think he thought well the jury clearly
sees that you can’t count on a
seven-year-old but I think you’re right
Amy I think the jury just could not get
over a child getting up there and saying
my mother did it and I saw her do it
yeah I think that was probably powerful
I also saw an interview that Aphrodite
Jones did with one of the jurors believe
the only juror that I’ve seen speak you
know I have to tell you he said I just
knew she did it because I didn’t hear
her say that she jumped in the pool or
ripped the pool down or got in there she
didn’t she didn’t get in the pool or rip
it it was only four feet high how tall
was she she could have just reached over
and grabbed her out no exactly
also I want to point out that was
something that people had said about the
idea that Adriana drown well she was
four feet tall the pool was four feet
tall she couldn’t drown she would just
stand right up that’s not true kids can
drown in two feet of water if you know
even if you know how to swim like you
always hear these like you know when my
kids go to swim lessons and it doesn’t
matter if you if you could swim you can
easily drown in water that’s much
shorter than you right I mean obviously
I did some reading up on that and you
can drown I mean you can drown in water
that is not deep at all it is definitely
possible to panic it’s possible you
shouldn’t even know she could stand up
because she’s you know usually in
floaties it’s also possible that she did
hit her head so the suggestion by the
defense just so you know was that
Adriana took that red wagon she stood up
they always talked about how you’d get
the bugs out of the pool if you wanted
to go swimming so the defense said she
obviously stood right up in that wet red
wagon leaned down to scoop the bugs out
of the pool and went straight down and
probably hit her head straight down and
then was rendered unconscious or
somewhat unconscious and drowned that’s
something they would have been able to
see the autopsy right if she had liked
well but if a medical examiner gave some
very mixed evidence and remember he was
fired during this time fled the state
and that was or I don’t say fled left
the state and so we really didn’t have
much from him so at the end I think this
is an inconclusive case yeah Amanda
Lewis again says that she is innocent
she’s given some recent interviews I’m
not sure what happens next because her
appeal was denied in but I’m sure
she’s going to go to her next level of
Appeals at some point it’s this is just
a hard case because like I said no DNA
it’s not that someone else is gonna come
forward and admit that they did it this
really just rests on this one little boy
the only thing I can think of is as he
gets older and if he’s in therapy he you
know he might somehow you know they do
hypnosis now there’s some way he might
recant I’ve heard of stories where
children recant like allegations of sex
abuse and stuff like that it’s possible
that AJ might recant at some point one
of the interviews I saw with Amanda
someone asked her interviewer asked her
how she felt about AJ and was she upset
with him she said absolutely not I would
never be upset with him I love my son
always loved him this is not his fault
so she’s finding a way to make peace
with it that way and if anything new
develops we will come back to you and
report back on this case
thank you again Michele for recommending
it and thank you so much Amy and we’ll
see you all next time on women in crime
thanks Megan
Women & Crime is written and hosted by
Meghan Sacks and Amy Schlosberg our
producer and editor is James Varga our
music is composed by desert media
[Music]
sources for today’s episode include
killer women with Piers Morgan the ABC
documentary what did AJ see murder of
seven year old Adriana Hutto and true
crime with Aphrodite Jones