Episode Transcript
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Hi everyone if Amy’s audio sounds a
little bit funny today maybe a little
bit different it’s because we are still
social distancing so Amy is recording
from her home office today
aka her bedroom closet hey Amy how are
you hi Megan I’m wonderful how are you
I’m great I’m actually excited we have
two new patrons today so first I would
like to say a big thank you to Rachel
Tempest all the way from Australia
that’s a long way for you to go so we
appreciate it that’s amazing and in
honor of Rachel I think I’m gonna choose
a case from Australia for my next one oh
that’s awesome okay there’s some good
ones that came out of there too
so okay so thank you so much Rachel
we’re so grateful for your support and
we hope you enjoyed today’s episode and
we have a second patron I’d like to talk
a bit about her because she is she wrote
to us but she was listening while she
was on her way from Texas to New York
because she is actually a registered
nurse in Texas who volunteered to come
help in New York City with the Kovach
crisis amazing what’s her name her name
is Nikki Rodgers Nikki thank you so much
for all that you are doing yeah Nikki
you wrote to say that you are big fans
of ours but I think it’s safe to say
that we are even bigger fans of yours
and all of your colleagues and we really
appreciate it and in honor of you and
everyone on the front lines with you we
are dedicating today’s episode to you
all so we really hope you enjoy also
Nikki as one of our patrons asked a
question her question is about the
significant others of serial killers
such as Elizabeth Kendall who dated Ted
Bundy so what is it about these women
that makes them dateable as opposed to a
victim if I found out someone I dated
was a psychopath killer I would have
questions like why me and why them so I
think that’s a great question Nikki and
as someone who teaches serial killers
I’m gonna get right in here and answer
to the best of my abilities so first of
all serial killers almost always or
usually victims that are strangers to
them so there is a separation between
the person who they date
who they know and the person who they
kill and what happens is oftentimes the
person that they kill is they are
attracted to those women often it can be
men as well for one of two reasons one
is that there is just a physical
attraction to them and it’s so much so
that that’s the type from which they get
sexual stimulation even though that
sexual stimulation is still going to
come in the form of you know probably a
sexual assault and a murder or the
second part is that they are attracted
to them because they represent someone
they hate and want to punish so there’s
a group of serial killers who kill for
you know revenge and for the sadism of
it and so these are kind of the two
groups of women now they always fall
into the stranger category as opposed to
the women that serial killers will meet
and possibly date and marry those are
women that they meet in their everyday
lives you know the idea that the serial
killer is just a lone person who has no
friends no family isn’t really true
that’s more of a myth most of them will
have daily jobs daily routines even go
to church and so the women that they
meet in the course of their daily lives
and that are known to them known to
friends known to families usually the
ones who they perceive as more virtuous
those are the women that they are gonna
choose to date now what happens with
those women though is that they try they
strive for this normalcy this normal
relationship and that’s what they’re
really hoping for ultimately but at some
point there’s usually a problem with the
sexual relationship because they can’t
achieve that kind of you know excitement
and climax they’re looking for with this
partner because that’s not the purpose
this partner serves this partner is more
of that person so they’ll have to go out
usually they get frustrated at some
point you know they may desist to all
the relationship is in the beginning but
then they’re you should go out and kill
again the people that they often seek
out then are strangers people that they
deem who are less valuable that people
won’t miss so those are the types of
women such as homeless women sex workers
or drug addicts or any really of the
above and and sometimes they’re all one
in the same I hope that answers your
question Niki did that do it for you Amy
I couldn’t have said it better myself
Megan without further ado here’s our
original
episode recorded in studio we hope you
enjoy in May shortly after
graduating with honors year old
Natalie Holloway joined over of her
classmates on a trip to Aruba on the
last night she left the bar with a man
she had met just a few days prior no one
seemed concerned until she missed her
flight home and her passport and packed
luggage were found in her hotel room
where was Natalie this is episode the
Natalie Holloway story
[Music]
Hi Meghan
hi Amy how are you good how are you
today good all right write it again to
it yes okay so before we get started I
just want to say this was one of the
most difficult cases to research the
amount of media coverage books movies
documentaries podcasts it is filled with
the most amount of rumors I’ve ever seen
in the case false leads
you know extortion over a half a dozen
arrests lawsuits it just goes on and on
so I will try my best to tell the story
in the most straightforward way but
you’re gonna have to pay attention I am
ready to I know it’s an overwhelming
amount of information sometimes you go
like oh we don’t have enough info but
this is I know this case and I know it’s
gonna have a lot so curious to see what
you’ve come up with I was gonna say even
though this case is well known I know
that you know it I guarantee there’ll be
some twists and turns for you here I’m
sure of it
okay so as always let’s talk about who
Natalie was so Natalie was born in
Mississippi in – Dave and Beth
Holloway they’ve worked in insurance
Beth worked in the school system
unfortunately the marriage did not last
long they got divorced in Natalie
and her younger brother Matt were mostly
raised by their mother Beth in Beth
remarried George Twitty she’ll be known
now as Beth Holloway Twitty the family
moved to his home state of Alabama where
he was a successful businessman it was a
upper-middle class area and by all
accounts Natalie was very close with her
stepfather and of course her mother as
well
they called him jug right they did I was
gonna leave that out but yes I got no
all right so Natalie excelled in school
as I mentioned she was in the Honor
Society she graduated with honors she
was also on the dance squad very
involved in her church had many friends
very popular girl if you see the
pictures of her they’re always her like
dancing on the football field you know
she was planning on attending the
University of Alabama she got a full
scholarship to study pre-med so she was
very bright girl so just two days after
graduation
on May Natalie headed to Aruba
for it was I guess you could say in an
unofficial clash trip there were over
students going and they did have
about seven adult chaperones as well but
this wasn’t
through the school it was just like an
informal thing so they say that the
Holiday Inn they had a great time by all
accounts that a lot of partying going to
casinos going to clubs the drinking age
is I do want to say I went to Cancun
at this age so a lot of people weren’t a
little judgmental of Beth for allowing
Natalie to go to Aruba as an year old
pretty much unattended but I don’t know
about you Megan but that was very common
in my school people want junior senior
year my mom let me go to Virginia Beach
when I was yes
for five days so our parents it was
so uncommon for seniors yeah but
unfortunately Beth did it seems like
people judged it a little bit but that’s
how these things go so Natalie you know
people said Natalie was having you know
a lot of fun as she should have been
drinking a lot and partying a lot I’m
the last line of the trip Natalie and a
group of her girlfriends headed to
Carlos and Charlie’s which is just a
popular night spot as you can say it’s
like a nightclub this was their last
night out they had an early flight the
next day so there were reports that the
teens were all very drunk they were
doing body shots on the bar and again
doing what teens do when they’re the
drinking ages in Aruba so right okay
so let’s fast forward to the next
morning everyone’s getting ready for
their flight they’re all meeting up in
the hotel and at some point everyone’s
gathering and all sudden they’re doing
roll call and Natalie’s nowhere to be
found
and everyone’s kind of scrambling
texting you know calling her texting her
of course they went to her room and
that’s when they found her passport and
luggage and it was pretty much chaos it
was described as the chaperones of
course were quickly informed by the
students that no one could find Natalie
the chaperones then called Beth back
home in Alabama as would be expected her
parents got hysterical they hopped on a
plane and they actually got there within
hours of when they got that phone
call they were already landed in Aruba
this is Beth and George Twitty yes Beth
and George they actually joined by a few
family friends as well and from what I
understand some of the chaperones they
stayed back to help as well they
actually took a private jet there a
private plane I don’t know where they
had access to one but they really they
jumped into motion
so Beth starts calling everyone she knew
that was with Natalie
quickly was able to find out that she
was at Carlos and Charlie is the night
before and that she was seen hanging out
with a gentleman by the name of yeren
van der Sloot his name sound familiar to
you yeah of course so who is urine well
Natalie had met him actually a night or
two prior at a casino there was a casino
that was attached to Natalie’s hotel
okay and urine was said to hang out
there a lot so there was surveillance
showing them meeting and kind of
chatting each other up so urine was born
in in the Netherlands he moved to
Aruba with his parents a few years later
he was pretty much considered a local in
Aruba he grew up there he was known to
hang out at tourist spots some people
say he always hit on American girls he
would get hotel rooms have sex parties
with his friends you know but again a
lot of this could just be the rumors and
all of that crap right right he was very
confident he would he definitely was
considered a party guy his father was a
prominent attorney on the island who was
training to become a judge and that
becomes important I think that’s a I
remember this part yeah so Beth starts
piecing together things she found out
that Natalie left the bar around :
with urine and his two friends Deepak
and Satish kelpo and at this point it is
assumed that Natalie had never made it
back to the hotel so Beth and others try
to retrace her steps they actually ended
up hiring two locals at the airport that
would serve as their I guess you could
say their guides while they’re on the
island right I’m sorry who who are
urines friends again Deepak and Satish
kaupo right okay I couldn’t remember the
names yep so they were local they were
you know local brothers good friends
with urine so they started of course at
the Holiday Inn where Natalie had stayed
talked to the front desk and Beth had
spoken to a night manager and the night
manager actually new yarn well and
pointed him out as the guy who hung out
at the casino next to the hotel and they
also had viewed footage that confirmed
that the two knew each other
so Beth goes to urines home I actually
have no idea how she found out where he
lived it’s possible it’s like a small
town a small island yeah so she was
accompanied by local police and she
actually went to his home in the middle
of the night and the car that Natalie
was last seen getting into was parked in
his driveway and urine was there with
his friend Deepak kaupo and he admitted
that he was with Natalie
and he says he dropped her off at the
hotel he also described in detail the
sexual activity he had engaged in with
Natalie to her mom at this point yeah
apparently it just seems like this shows
his character did he claim I’m sorry I
don’t want to get to her but did he
claim they had full-on sexual activity
or it depends what story you want to
hear because he tells got many different
accounts at some point yes they did at
some point no they didn’t okay I’m so we
don’t actually really know got it so
this gets this meeting gets pretty tense
there was a lot of yelling and you know
Beth and her husband are there with
their friends so there’s a bunch of
Americans yelling at this local kid his
father comes out so urine says finally
you know what I’ll just show you where I
dropped her off so they get in the car
you’re in agrees you know follow me I’ll
show you exactly where I dropped her off
he told them that Natalie had fallen
down that he drove her to her hotel she
fell down and two security guards had
helped her up and he left her with them
obviously he wasn’t smart enough to
think about surveillance cameras yeah
yeah exactly
so this story will end up being the
first of many lies and many different
versions that urine would tell more on
that later when we talked about his many
different versions of events so at this
point he says okay I know nothing more I
did what I can and I’m out you know he
leaves it at that
so of course Beth stays in Aruba she
tries to file a missing-persons report
she was brushed off she was told this
thing happens all the time people go
missing you know she’ll probably show up
in a few days you know this thing we
hear often when people try to report
someone missing so of course she wasn’t
gonna sit around and wait she organized
her own search party they had a lot of
support a lot of friends and family from
Alabama came to help a lot of the locals
in Aruba helped in the search efforts
the authorities didn’t seem to be taking
it serious and Natalie’s family
obviously was taking it very serious
right but the Aruban police didn’t like
what was going on they felt that Beth
was making them look bad so they decided
to step in and start helping out a
little more they show Beth some security
tapes from the hotel and they see now
there’s no sign of urine dropping off
Natalie as he had claimed so at this
point Beth actually says that she was
convinced that urine was responsible for
her daughter’s disappearance because
that was the first blatant lie of many
so there was a media frenzy Beth was
doing a ton of TV
here and says Natalie’s father Dave was
now on the island as well and I don’t
know if you remember Megan but this was
a massive story oh
national/international actually
absolutely I followed it
like I mean most people thought yeah
yeah it was a big one so about days
into the search the three boys who were
last seen with Natalie were arrested
they were arrested on the grounds that
they had lied they had never dropped
Natalie off and this ends up being
pretty problematic because he he
implicated two security guards who were
actually arrested on suspicion of foul
play in Natalie’s case so you can’t just
make up stories and say I left her with
these two security guards because they
looked into security guards and luckily
the two gentlemen were released when
they found out that obviously there was
no backing to that story yeah you can
make it up if you have no conscience
exactly you’re gonna get caught exactly
so the story changes now they say that
the calpro brothers dropped the Natalie
and urine at the beach where they fooled
around and then he says he left her
there he says that she was in and out of
consciousness and he insisted that she
go back to her hotel and that he would
take her but she refused public service
announcement don’t leave unconscious
girls on beaches and foreign lands but
anyway so there was not enough evidence
to keep the calpro brothers they were
released after only a month their
charges were dismissed remember there’s
no body here there’s no physical
evidence they were looking they tore
apart these you know both of the boys
houses cars everything they had no
physical evidence but urine was still
being held at this point but your ons
the only one they have any evidence of
even lying correct at this point had to
had the brothers lied about anything I’m
not really sure they had done anything
at this point I mean other than being
quite suspicious yeah yeah it correct
he’s the one who actually lied the
reason why they were brought into it is
because they were seen driving around
with urine right okay
[Music]
you
so Beth said that she believed that his
parents knew exactly what had happened
and he did as well they were they did
sit down and talk to her and then they
stopped talking and they said that you
know they were done talking to her and
many people on the island started
turning against her and we’re kind of
getting annoyed by all the media
attention part of this was because she
kept calling the calvo brothers
criminals publicly although they were
released and you can’t do that right I
remember when the media started to turn
I remember they were quite supportive in
the Islanders were and I remember then
at some point they thought Beth had
started to insult them exactly and
everyone who kind of lived there and
they turned on her yeah I mean because
they were very helpful and supportive of
her and then they felt that she turned
on them so they turned on her which was
really unfair because if you look at the
source of their problem the source of
the problem was really the investigation
and of course yeah so Beth wouldn’t
leave she did a ton of media she was on
every program I’m sure you recall she
was on GMA Nancy Grace CNN she was cover
of peeple dr. Phil she was doing what
any mother would do she was really
trying to get as much attention and part
of this attention was trying to put
pressure on the local authorities
unfortunately she had one as far to tell
people to ban going to Aruba until
Natalie’s body was found so it got a
little nasty at some point but going
back to urine he was released from jail
after three months so I actually found
this interesting because he was held for
three months with no charge at all and
at some point they you can’t just attain
someone any longer without a charge they
did not have enough evidence to tie him
to Natalie’s disappearance so in the
u.s. they could only hold you for up for
up to hours they have to charge you
with a crime or release you of course if
you’re suspected of a serious crime they
can apply to hold you for longer and
there’s some other if it’s under the
Terrorism Act you can be held for up to
days but generally speaking you need
to be arraigned within hours oh yeah
so the fact that he was held for three
months with no charge but no charge is
not that would not happen here yeah that
violates due process here so van der
Sloot and the Calpol brothers were
actually arrested again in November of
but again they were released
without being charged and about a month
later the case was the clare closed by a
Reuben authorities at some point the
authority said like there’s nothing we
can do here
we’ve been arresting and investigating
and we just we have nothing
and I do want to say I think it was
around this point that Jota Kapena was
urines attorney chota Pina again I don’t
know for direct appeal listeners we come
across Joe on a regular I know we got to
talk to Joe I mean it would be nice yeah
from what I understand the reason he was
no longer his attorney is because urine
could no longer afford his services but
it was interesting because a lot of what
I read Takapuna was pretty vocal about
urines innocence and you don’t see that
very often because there’s a ton of
evidence that’s not looking great for
van der Sloot I also want to mention
that while Natalie’s family was not
happy with the response of local
authorities they were investigating hard
and they were arresting people left and
right they tore up the van der Sloot’s
yard the house of course but the yard
got torn up they arrested urines father
at some point he was held for three days
back in they arrested one of urines
friends who worked as a DJ on a boat
they were really trying wasn’t the issue
though that they this was all too late
wasn’t the initial issue that they
didn’t do this until the pressure you
know well an investigation like the
first course I mean like a problem
yep yeah that’s one of the big problems
is you know so for example this friend
who had the boat you know they searched
his boat like what’s gonna be on the
boat years later right you know they
also had a lot of local banks donated
money the government even gave their
civilians a day off to help with the
search like they were really again it
might be too little too late say some
people but the government did step up
and were trying to do a lot so let’s
move on to in the Aruban
officials reopened the case against van
der Sloot after a tape showing him
describing Holloway’s death I remember
this it was a sting operation by a Dutch
crime reporter and he released tapes
that show that show van der Sloot
describing what happened to Natalie he
now says that he was on the beach with
her she started shaking and having a
seizure
he panics and she dies then he decides
oh what am I gonna do with the body I’m
gonna call my friend who has a boat and
they will get rid of the body for me and
then she was disposed of into the ocean
possibly still alive because when asked
are you sure she was dead he wasn’t sure
if she was dead I remember that that was
a chilling moment
watching that Yanis when he said it I
don’t like he wasn’t sure I went oh my
god yeah yeah I felt really bad for
Bethan to have to hear that end for Dave
Rubin officials were not able to
corroborate these statements though so
nothing really happened with them so
things were kind of quiet for the next
two years with was a very busy year
for yarn this is about five years after
Natalie’s disappearance you’re in
contact the Holloway family and says if
you give me two hundred and fifty
thousand dollars I will tell you where
natalie is and by the way I would like
twenty five thousand upfront so clearly
this is extortion you’re not allowed to
do that
so Beth’s lawyer meets with urine and
they decide to set up a whole sting
operation with the FBI they put $,
in cash on the table and fifteen
thousand dollars were being wired to
urines bank account the FBI had the
lawyer wire the money sits down with
urine urine tells John the lawyer that
she had hit her head and she had died
and he disposed of the body he even took
John to a spot where he says that his
now dead father buried her so I want to
mention urines father died shortly
before this in so now he’s
implicating his father so let’s pause
for a minute and discuss the many
stories of urine this has three stories
at this point right I’m actually up to
five oh I think so his first story was
he didn’t know her cuz I don’t know if I
mentioned but when they first went to
the house at night Beth he initially
denied okay Cesario story three number
one number two he dropped her off at the
hotel the security guards took her okay
number three he left her on the beach
and she was fine remember I said you
shouldn’t do that anyway but he’s right
number four she died from a seizure
while they were on the beach okay so
this is Story number five yep story
number five she had hit her head and
actually somewhere in here there was a
story that he tells someone else it’s a
little later on so spoiler alert but he
says that he sold her into sex slavery
I remember that one so we’re at six
different stories to my present day I
think we could say they’re six stories
so your and then sends a letter to John
saying that he was lying and nothing he
told him was the truth
what he did was wire fraud and extortion
so now it’s nice because the US can have
some jurisdiction over this because the
murder happened in a
the US can’t do anything and Beth and
others are desperate for this guy that
comes to some sort of you know him to
have some sort of punishment so now the
federal government is interceding right
exactly so the FBI is getting him for
wire fraud and extortion and well
that’ll circle back when we talk more
about present day so why would you or an
even even do this well I know why why
he’s out of money dad it wasn’t given
him any more money was a gambler yes it
was that espera he was desperate for
money he claims he did this because the
Holloway’s have destroyed his life with
all the false accusations so if he was
innocent you could understand that he
would be pissed but let’s be honest here
I mean do we really think he is innocent
like just leave the family alone move on
I mean I thought that was actually like
insult to injury that that is the
depravity that is you’re on vandersloop
I think we can probably all agree on
that yep but something else is going on
in so after spending some time
living in tile in urine moves back to
Aruba and then he goes to Peru for a
poker tournament he was a professional
poker player by now in case you’re
wondering so he goes to Peru takes part
in this tournament what else does he do
in Peru he murders her year old woman
Stephanie Flores five years to the day
which is I don’t know if that’s just
some sick coincidence I remember that
too and I remember I thought that was
chilling yeah so May th he
murders year old Stephanie floors and
then he flees so we will come to find
out that you’re in met Stephanie at a
casino she was also a gambler she went
back to his hotel room at her own will
there are reports there’s two competing
stories one story is that she may have
looked him up on his computer and found
out about his past which of course
pissed him off and it set him off
another story was that they were playing
poker together on his computer he
received an instant message something
that was relevant to the Holloway case
and then that started an altercation I’m
sorry but both of these stories came
from him correct yes I know for a fact
the first one did so it could be that
it’s Story number three that he just
murdered her for another reason
of course yep and it probably is so they
got into a physical altercation he ends
up strangling her and suffocating her he
does confess to this of course after
initially denying knowing anything at
all but then of course he realized
there’s no way he’s getting away with
this she was found dead in the hotel
room that he was registered
he tried to frame it a self-defense
saying that she came at him first
stephanie was very badly be in her neck
was broken reports say that the crime
scene was absolutely brutal and you know
if he wants to say it was self-defense
that’s ludicrous
yeah that was it was it was a ridiculous
and quick defense this that when did not
go home no and he also had claims he had
ten drinks he was you know wasted and
you know he just keeps his grasping at
straws here so apparently after he kills
her he leaves the dead body in the hotel
room he goes to get coffee and a Danish
as seen on surveillance he asked the
hotel staffer to let him into his room
he says he left his key some say this is
because he wanted the hotel staffer to
discover the body with him but
unfortunately for urines the plan fails
because when they opened the door the
body is not visible and the staffer goes
back downstairs so he decides he’s just
gonna steal Stephanie’s car dump it get
a cab and head to the border of Chile
that’s right yep
good plan so he gets this cab it’s a ten
hour drive to the border
I actually I read somewhere that it was
like a month’s salary for these guys
that drove him it was like two brothers
wait is then he couldn’t pay him right
yes and then he couldn’t he’s I just
remember to pay them yep and then that’s
why he got cuz they stopped before they
got to the border and he’s like my car
doesn’t work here so we have to go
across the border he makes it over the
border he was happy about that but not
for long you know he does cross the
border into Chile and he was officially
on the run but he only made it four days
and then a Tollbooth operator recognized
him and called the authorities his face
is everywhere at this point right he was
flown back to Peru and brought to
justice for the murder of Stephanie his
face was probably everywhere – if I
recall Stephanie had some very
influential parents yes well so I think
they were also good about getting media
attention pretty quickly
yeah Stephanie’s father was a very
respected businessman in Peru he was a
retired racecar driver and he was very
politically connected and he was just
like Beth very vocal tons of media
attention looking for answers looking
for justice it was his only girl he had
you know he had several sons but this
was obviously as you could imagine very
hard on the family so in yeren pled
guilty to qualified murder which is
deliberate he tried to use a defense of
violent emotion which is similar to our
crimes
and that was not successful so he was
trying to say that this was not
something that I planned to do it
happened because of an altercation and
the court said no you you thought about
doing this you did it you’re getting you
know yeah he tried the heat of the
moment exactly a moment did not was not
successful he was very desperate he also
pled guilty to robbery as well he
actually even tried to make a deal by
asking to speak with the Rubin
authorities about the Holloway case so
of course they said no he’ll know like
you’re ours we’re not in or out doing
that so he was sentenced to years in
prison ironically shortly before his
sentence I think it was just a couple of
weeks a judge in Alabama declared
Natalie legally dead
so there’s state differences as to when
a missing person could be declared dead
in Alabama it’s five years some states
say up to seven years I read somewhere
that Natalie’s father was pushing
Bertha’s because there were some funds
tied up in some account I guess he
wanted to give his other children for
college but until she was declared dead
he couldn’t have access to that but of
course Beth wasn’t ready to do that I’ve
heard families argue this both ways why
they wanted to leave it open or why they
needed to declare them yeah I think this
is probably a really difficult choice I
agree
so where’s your now while he is
currently serving his time in a South
American prison
seems like prison is very different
there he got married he has conjugal
visits
apparently he gets food drugs he wear
street clothes he had a daughter back in
so he did get married and he does
have a daughter
he’s a daughter mm-hmm you know I I
think I recall that he got married I’m
not sure if I recall that he had a child
yeah so I would have thought the prison
there would have been a harder life I
would have too but there’s some room
again the route there’s no shortage of
rumors in this case there are some
rumors that he’s getting special
treatment which doesn’t make sense to me
on the one hand people say he’s getting
special treatment because his father was
so well-connected because his father
ended up being a judge in Aruba however
Stephanie’s father’s well-connected in
that country so you would think of
anything he would be getting worst
treatment but I want to point out him
having a daughter is very crucial to
this because after years he could be
extradited to the u.s. to face those
fraud charges remember he has the
charges by the FBI but if you have a
baby with a Peruvian citizen
that might make the process a little bit
harder so I’m wondering how much of his
marriage and having this child was
calculated by urine I don’t know well I
I could venture a guess yes and
apparently the woman he is married to is
quite young and I don’t know it seems
like an icky situation but he has said
that he is terrified of US prisons and
he wants to avoid extradition by all
costs I don’t blame him he should be
terrified of US prisons oh yeah
especially because the whole US would be
you know having to have him back right
absolutely so as I mentioned there’s
tons of rumors there’s a rumor that
Stephanie’s father ordered a hit on him
for $, because Stephanie’s father
of course is very angry at him Joran had
also been stabbed up to five times in
prison some say he had stabbed himself
to get attention and sympathy other
people say he’s just being brutalized by
the other inmates there so urines father
died I told you in back in his
mother does not have a relationship with
him she claims that he is innocent of
the crimes against him having to do with
the Natalie Holloway case but of course
she agrees that he did murder Stephanie
and she also says that he has mental
health issues and he refuses to get
treatment so yet another tape surfaces
in so there’s a tape of van der
Sloot confessing to murdering Natalie
this was called a publicity stunt and I
don’t think this holds any weight but
apparently there was a hidden camera in
his cell in Peru and he’s in the room
with his AUSA with his wife in the room
as well and he’s telling someone it
almost sounds like it’s like a jailhouse
confession he’s telling someone about
how yes I did kill Natalie and I feel
bad about it taking responsibility for
it but he was looking in the camera so
it seems like it’s he’s just trying to
get attention tabloids were giving him a
lot of money for exclusive so he was
trying to get attention trying to get
money from tabloids I don’t buy that
there was a hidden camera because
someone was trying to sell it to the
media after this happened but nothing
ever happened with that so maybe there
with the implication is that at one of
the officers a correctional worker is
hiding cameras in his cell yeah okay
yeah it’s ridiculous
what was what did he say did he have
another version now he did not there’s
not a seventh version of events he says
like someone it’s like somebody saying
did you do this
he says yes you know it’s him just
taking responsibility but not saying
what the story is got it so I don’t know
if you saw the oxygen I think a six or
seven part series that oxygen did in the
summer of about this case was this
the one with her father yes with Dave
Holloway they go back to the island so
it features a new witness who says that
he knows where Natalie’s remains are
John Ludwig John lug would claim to have
helped van der Sloot dig up smash and
cremate Holloway’s bones in after
van der Sloot paid him $
he claimed that after he crushed up
Natalie’s bones he took them mixed with
a dog’s remains to a crematorium where
he paid a worker $ in cash you know
to cremate what he said was his pet the
Holloway family claimed that this was BS
and that Ludwig was just being paid by
oxygen unfortunately we may never know
much more because Ludwig was killed in
was he murdered Ludwig was murdered
so Ludwig had tried to abduct a woman
and she stabbed him in self-defense
telling you so many layers to this case
there is no shortage of twists and turns
here I also remember seeing Ludwik and
he seemed to have substantial addiction
issues and mental health issues and
other absolutely somebody who definitely
would say something like this for $,
so Beth filed a lawsuit in against
oxygen and their producers because she
said that she gave DNA she said there
was fraud involved they claimed that
they found human remains and they were
not Natalie’s and she claims that this
was all just entertainment value and
exploitation and they knew that these
were not Natalie’s remains a judge is
taking it to trial it’s headed to trial
this year very recently / did a
-year follow-up where they went back
with Beth to Aruba it just aired in
November nothing really new it
was just sad and it’s really I think
just to keep the story alive you got it
your heart has to hurt for her Beth and
he saw the / and I did I thought it
was really good actually I did maybe it
wasn’t new but yeah I don’t blame her
for keeping the story alive and you know
she just still doesn’t know and you just
still never know of course and she’s
reunited with the drivers that helped
her toward the island when she first got
there
it’s somewhat of a feel-good I guess
she’s a different perspective so you
know Beth of course does on now she
founded the Natalie Holloway foundation
which is really and I think it’s
actually called the international safe
travels foundation but it was called the
Natalie Holloway foundation and then it
switched names it’s all about informing
and educating the public to help people
travel more safe internationally and
then there is the Natalie Holloway
Resource Center that is in the crime
Museum in Washington DC that just
focuses on again education crime
prevention and there’s resources for
families of missing persons that they
could go there and that’s been around I
thinks it’s like so at least there
is some you know Beth Holloway Twitty
wants and not to be in vain right so she
tries to do a lot of good stuff with
she’s a really strong advocate
absolutely I could go for another two
hours on this case but I think we should
wrap it up here is there anything you
wanted to add obviously we both think
that you’re on bender soot is guilty of
the murder of Natalie Holloway I don’t
know in which version it happens you
know I don’t know for sure if it was
premeditated or accidental if he just
had no regard whatsoever for her life or
if he actually planned to kill her but
he’s guilty I wish that we could see
justice for Natalie Holloway I still
hope that we will in some ways but I
don’t know if that is reality that will
happen I’m really glad that he was at
least caught and punished for the the
murder of Stephanie and I am a little
disappointed to hear that he’s has such
privileges but he’s still incarcerated
and if he does get out I can almost
guarantee you that they will extradite
him here no matter what the hurdles are
they will get him back here and I look
forward to that day hopefully in my
lifetime
yeah I agree and I also agree that I
don’t if I had to say my theory I don’t
think that he purposely killed her I
think something happened I I think he
had planned to take advantage of her
maybe he drugged her he definitely did
not have he had ill intentions I don’t
think he planned to kill her either she
died accidentally or because he
overdosed her on some sort of drug and
then they just panicked and disposed of
the body yeah I have to agree all right
Megan thank you well thank you Amy for
the deep dive on the Natalie Holloway
case and we hope the listeners and
today’s episode will see everyone next
time Thanks
[Music]
Women & Crime is written
and hosted by Megan Saks and Amy
Schlossberg our producer and editor is
James Varga our music is composed by
desert media
sources for today’s episode came from
the Holloway files ABC’s / Fox News
and oxygens the disappearance of Natalie
Holloway